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Post by charleselan on Apr 16, 2018 15:56:59 GMT
Some very good and well reasoned comments immediately above which makes for good reading and gets one thinking.
Firstly I haven't seen any highlights, or heard anything about last Sunday's event in China, but have read a small amount just to give me some idea of what occurred. From what I have read it was a rather contrived affair but obviously got the juices flowing for those that remain entranced with this thing called F1.
Secondly my purpose in commenting here is to give my perspective on Max Verstappen and his antics. I can of course see possible comparisons with Gilles, but that is down to people playing with imagery more than a real life comparison. As has been said above the two are polar opposites, and any likeness can be put down to their somewhat overzealous early career and apparent speed. That however is where it ends; Gilles unlike Max had no "support group", he was having to make his mark and the only way he could do that was set the world on fire. There was no Red Bull, and happy Daddy behind Gilles, just blinding talent. The latter wasn't even enough at times as it was never certain that he would retain his Ferrari seat after season one.
I positively shudder at the thought of Max becoming another Michael Schumacher, as one driver in the history of the sport with that level of cynicism and arrogance is enough for anyone. Max displays an arrogance and self righteousness that has been brought about by an upbringing that has encouraged such traits. Being pulled down a peg or two is often the making of a man.
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Post by Carl on Apr 16, 2018 16:17:39 GMT
Everyone presents a valid view, an impressive norm on this website. Daniel Ricciardo was extraordinary! That alone made an otherwise predictable race enjoyable. Whether Max Verstappen will be revered later in life or bound to wreck his chances is unclear. His talent is amazing but his judgement, as Lucio and John Charles emphasize, is animated by arrogance. Another stunning pass, though not as brilliant as Daniel's immaculate ones, was by Sebastien Bourdais at Long Beach, jinking at high speed to pass Scott Dixon and two other cars into the first corner late in the race. Just as in China, the announcers were beside themselves. After having watched a tape delay of Australian Supercars at Albert Park, both qualifying sessions and the IMSA support race Saturday, and then Sunday's major races, I'm exhausted!
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Post by chrisb on Apr 16, 2018 21:21:27 GMT
Carl, that sounds great - as I mentioned previously Daniel's ability to overtake is brilliant and a worthy and sporting bloke to boot, would love to see him as WDC -
I was anything but a fan of Max's old man who was Michael's mate don't forget - I was a fan of Jan and really thought he had such potential it was a real shame
there is a major difference between Michael and Max, Michael never admitted he was ever wrong, with DC quoting that and Max has,
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Post by René on Apr 17, 2018 10:42:04 GMT
Some very good comments gentlemen. Max is getting a lot of criticism at the moment (justly) and I really hope he takes it to heart and learns from it. If not, he will only be a more successful version of his father and the interest from other top teams can swiftly wane. But let's wait and see, he is still very young. Carl, that sounded like a 'racy' weekend for you! Cool. The Indycar race at Long Beach must have kept you awake though!
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Post by Carl on Apr 17, 2018 15:19:37 GMT
Some very good comments gentlemen. Max is getting a lot of criticism at the moment (justly) and I really hope he takes it to heart and learns from it. If not, he will only be a more successful version of his father and the interest from other top teams can swiftly wane. But let's wait and see, he is still very young. Carl, that sounded like a 'racy' weekend for you! Cool. The Indycar race at Long Beach must have kept you awake though! Rene, Just so! The race was very exciting and the new IndyCars beautiful.
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Post by robmarsh on Apr 18, 2018 7:11:47 GMT
I had recorded the Long Beach race and watched it yesterday. The cars are very pretty this year, a fact my wife commented on when she walked in the room and saw them for the first time. She never said that about F1. F1 could learn a bit from Indycar eg simple front wings that are quite strong, no funny aero bling, fewer crew on the pitstops. I do see that Fi are brining in a minimum driver weight rumoured to be 80kgs with ballast having to be added to the cars of the lighter drivers. It is about time because the drivers were being trained to gain strength without gaining muscle mass, another needless expense as millions is spent inventing new training regimens to achieve this and adds nothing to the racing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2018 9:55:24 GMT
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Post by charleselan on Apr 21, 2018 10:37:15 GMT
An interesting remark, however an ex driver (can't recall at this very moment who) mentioned a few weeks ago that "Diving Dan's" late lunges will come to an end when the other driver no longer gives him room, or closes him out. Quite frankly I am surprised that no one has already.
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Post by Jamie on Apr 21, 2018 10:53:58 GMT
If you look at his moves, most of them are completed in a straight line and he’s alongside early on in the manoeuvre meaning his rival can’t turn in. That’s his secret I think, he’s alongside early and then his superior feel on the brake seals the deal. Getting it done in a straight line avoids the clumsy biff amidships some of his compatriots are prone to.
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Post by charleselan on Apr 21, 2018 12:47:03 GMT
The point being from my previous post was that he starts from a long way back, the other drivers do not anticipate that happening until it is too late and he is alongside. Once they understand that, and surprising that they haven't worked it out by now, the opening will not be there. If he is committed, bang, we get a collision.
“All his passes [in China] were made in a straight line – and that’s not by chance,” says an empathetic Watson. “He wasn’t trying to pass into a closing gap. He wasn’t trying an impossible move around the outside. He makes his passes before the other guy can turn in. He doesn’t lock up and he makes the apex.
“He comes from a long way back and so there’s a lot of positive thought in his passes. He’s fully committed.
“Sebastian Vettel didn’t defend. Maybe because he didn’t think Ricciardo was going to make the pass from so far back. Maybe because he knew that he was. It doesn’t matter."
John Watson MS 19-04-2018.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2018 12:51:57 GMT
An interesting remark, however an ex driver (can't recall at this very moment who) mentioned a few weeks ago that "Diving Dan's" late lunges will come to an end when the other driver no longer gives him room, or closes him out. Quite frankly I am surprised that no one has already. I’d go with thicko John ("bosh, bosh, bosh" ): Then, oviously, overtaking is a two-way business. It will come hopefully a moment when he will be a frontline driver every racing weekend and wiil have to fight it in a different way, but he seems he's got a very good racing brain, he's capable to find a way if he's got the means (car). On top of that, I really would like to see him on a dominant car starting from the front. Him and whoever - Vettel or Lewis.
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Post by Carl on Apr 21, 2018 15:56:30 GMT
I think Daniel Ricciardo anticipates all possible responses by those he intends passing. He seems to be several moves ahead of the competition in the high level chess game of cut and thrust racecraft.
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Post by Jamie on Apr 21, 2018 17:35:15 GMT
I think that he’s alongside so early that the only defence is a hugely compromised line that leaves rivals vulnerable to a switchback to the outside. It’s his feel for braking grip that’s giving him that advantage. He’s obviously got an incredible feel for where the grip is as he releases the brake as well and that allows him more often than not to hold a decent line out of the corner after one of his moves (as Lucio pointed out).
My Dad and I have discussed this at length in the past as he’s Dad’s favourite driver. It’s all about the straight line braking keeping the wheels relatively evenly loaded similar to a karting move, good old Dad made that association some while back. I’d like to think it reminded him of some of my karting moves way back, but I can assure you that’s not the case 😂
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2018 17:42:13 GMT
I think that he’s alongside so early that the only defence is a hugely comprimised line that leaves rivals vulnerable to a switchback to the outside. It’s his feel for braking grip that’s giving him that advantage. He’s obviously got an increadble feel for where the grip is as he releases the brake as well and that allows him more often than not to hold a decent line out of the corner after one of his moves (as Lucio pointed out). My Dad and I have discussed this at length in the past as he’s Dad’s favourite driver. It’s all about the straight line braking keeping the wheels relatively evenly loaded similar to a karting move, good old Dad made that association some while back. I’d like to think it reminded him of some of my karting moves way back, but I can assure you that’s not the case 😂 Your Dad is spot on. He is clearly a race engineer.
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Post by Jamie on Apr 21, 2018 18:04:17 GMT
I think that he’s alongside so early that the only defence is a hugely comprimised line that leaves rivals vulnerable to a switchback to the outside. It’s his feel for braking grip that’s giving him that advantage. He’s obviously got an increadble feel for where the grip is as he releases the brake as well and that allows him more often than not to hold a decent line out of the corner after one of his moves (as Lucio pointed out). My Dad and I have discussed this at length in the past as he’s Dad’s favourite driver. It’s all about the straight line braking keeping the wheels relatively evenly loaded similar to a karting move, good old Dad made that association some while back. I’d like to think it reminded him of some of my karting moves way back, but I can assure you that’s not the case 😂 Your Dad is spot on. He is clearly a race engineer. Aye, he was quite handy with kart set up back in the day 😁
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