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Post by charleselan on Sept 9, 2019 17:32:37 GMT
Unfortunately I have been out of action for a few weeks now and and not been up to commenting as such, therefore missed adding my thoughts about the Belgian GP which was very regrettable. It was a tragic weekend and the events which unfolded really placed the wonderful first victory for Charles Leclerc into a somewhat dark place. The fact that the young man has had to endure such tragedies in his young life and then rise above them marks him as something very special indeed.
It was fitting therefore that his second race win in F1 should come so soon after and at such a place as Monza, following a drive of such magnitude only added to the grandeur of the event.
Watching events unfold over the weekend it was as if it was just meant to be, and there can be little doubt now that the emphasis at Ferrari has surely shifted.
Late last year I predicted that Charles would be world Champion in 2019, which I think a few thought to be somewhat optimistic. However I did add the caveat that it depended upon Ferrari giving him the tools to do the job. I still firmly believe that if he had been given a car that matched the MB cars he would have been more than a factor, but of course “if my aunty had been my uncle she would have had b*lls”.
Over the past year some of us have drawn comparisons with Charles and Gilles, no greater compliment, however over this weekend I have been compelled to conclude that a comparison is more appropriate with Ayrton Senna. Not in character as they are very different personalities, but their career trajectory has been remarkably similar from karting and lower formula success right through to entering F1 in a less well funded team and then on to the big time in their second seasons. They also drive in a very similar fashion in so many respects, Charles maybe not having the sheer ruthlessness displayed by Ayrton.
The move on Lewis Hamilton was hard, no doubt about that, but it was as a result of what Verstappen did to him in Austria, and he was burnt by that. Lewis’ rather churlish comments afterwards were pure hypocrisy in my opinion as he has pulled similar moves himself and got away with it , even stating that anyone attempting an overtake around the outside is asking to be put off the track. I also rail at his comment that if he hadn’t have been contesting the championship he would have crashed them both, this from a multiple world champion and “senior statesman” is a disgrace.
The way to deal with this Lewis is to ask your former best friends dad e.g. deal out the same treatment the next time you are racing together.
One final thing, Sebastian. So much written about the guy and so much that is unpleasant and unworthy on many other motor sports sites. Anyone with an ounce of knowledge about motorsport will see that the cars he has been given these past two years are not suiting his very particular style of driving, a trait that has been a factor at Ferrari since the last year of Michael’s reign at Maranello. I have never been the biggest fan of Sebastian as a driver but have the highest regard for him as a man, probably one of the most personable in the F1 paddock and an absolute joy to see interviewed.
His piece with Martin Brundle at Fiorano was superb; Brundle “mate I am 60 years old”………. Seb “ driving a F1 car at 60, how cool is that”.
Make no mistake with the correct car Sebastian is blindingly quick and will get the feel back, however he has a big challenge ahead of him at Ferrari with the emergence of Charles Leclerc, something he has not had to deal with in the past. Maybe he should return to the Fizzy Drinks team and take on Max, and no I don’t think it a foregone conclusion Max would blow his doors off, it would be tight.
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Post by Jamie on Sept 9, 2019 18:18:45 GMT
Hi John,
I hope whatever has kept you out of action is resolved now....I did wonder where you were after Spa 👍😁
Good to have some new blood in the winners circle isn’t it.
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Post by robmarsh on Sept 9, 2019 18:22:47 GMT
Good to have you back John Charles and hope is all is well.
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Post by René on Sept 9, 2019 18:50:20 GMT
Yes, I was getting slightly worried!  Good to have you back JC! |
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Post by René on Sept 9, 2019 19:01:44 GMT
It is great to see the T4 again, i am also one of those people for whom it was not an ugly car... in fact my favourite F1 car is the T5, even though it was an abject failure, the world having moved on apace. Joe, the T4 is my favourite but the T5 comes close. An improved version of the T4 but the competition made much bigger steps and it was also less reliable compared to the T4. Yep, a failure. I have a great model car of the T5, a 1:14 scale Bburago diecast which looks very good. I have it since my 15th! Gilles did lead the Argentinian Grand Prix in the T5....until he crashed!   |
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Post by René on Sept 9, 2019 19:13:16 GMT
Charles moves against Lewis were on the edge but as JC said, losing the Austrian GP to Verstappen played a big role in this. When it was clear that Max's move was acceptable, Charles made a pragmatic decision in his mind which already became visible in the British Grand Prix where he fought Max equally harsh.
At Monza, there was no way anyone was going to take this away from him. And if he hadn't been so firm against Lewis he would have lost the race.
For me this was one of the best drives I have ever seen, certainly from someone so young. A legendary victory.
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Post by René on Sept 9, 2019 19:21:37 GMT
Friday's demonstration run by Jody Scheckter in his 312 T4 wasn't shown, possibly because the broadcast in America is edited for time rather than quality. The Sky broadcast, also poorly produced, had to show several exciting moments in replay. Here is a nice footage of the event: Wonderful Mikael. I saw a small clip on Dutch tv but this is much better! So wonderful to see the 312 T4 in HD on tele! And what a great guy Jody is. Never realized he didn't return to Monza for forty years, amazing. Great how he talked about Gilles. Jody and Gilles, one of the best pairings in F1 ever.  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 22:31:04 GMT
Let us not forget the start of the Brazillian Grand Prix in '80 too
It may have only lasted a little more than a lap, but what memories.
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Post by Carl on Sept 10, 2019 2:31:00 GMT
Friday's demonstration run by Jody Scheckter in his 312 T4 wasn't shown, possibly because the broadcast in America is edited for time rather than quality. The Sky broadcast, also poorly produced, had to show several exciting moments in replay. Here is a nice footage of the event: Mikael, I just watched a third time on a larger screen. Beautiful car, beautiful sounds and legendary driver!
I remember seeing Jody Scheckter in a Trojan F5000 at Riverside early in 1973, where he qualified on pole and came second to Brian Redman in the race. He was lightning fast, unafraid of the throttle, and the focus of attention every time he approached the Turn 6 grandstand.
Seeing him drive the 312 T4 at Monza is so enjoyable, his prominent nose, as always, just behind the visor of one of the all time great helmet designs.
Thanks again, Carl |
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Post by Carl on Sept 10, 2019 3:55:16 GMT
Unfortunately I have been out of action for a few weeks now and and not been up to commenting as such, therefore missed adding my thoughts about the Belgian GP which was very regrettable. It was a tragic weekend and the events which unfolded really placed the wonderful first victory for Charles Leclerc into a somewhat dark place. The fact that the young man has had to endure such tragedies in his young life and then rise above them marks him as something very special indeed. It was fitting therefore that his second race win in F1 should come so soon after and at such a place as Monza, following a drive of such magnitude only added to the grandeur of the event. Watching events unfold over the weekend it was as if it was just meant to be, and there can be little doubt now that the emphasis at Ferrari has surely shifted. Late last year I predicted that Charles would be world Champion in 2019, which I think a few thought to be somewhat optimistic. However I did add the caveat that it depended upon Ferrari giving him the tools to do the job. I still firmly believe that if he had been given a car that matched the MB cars he would have been more than a factor, but of course “if my aunty had been my uncle she would have had b*lls”. Over the past year some of us have drawn comparisons with Charles and Gilles, no greater compliment, however over this weekend I have been compelled to conclude that a comparison is more appropriate with Ayrton Senna. Not in character as they are very different personalities, but their career trajectory has been remarkably similar from karting and lower formula success right through to entering F1 in a less well funded team and then on to the big time in their second seasons. They also drive in a very similar fashion in so many respects, Charles maybe not having the sheer ruthlessness displayed by Ayrton. The move on Lewis Hamilton was hard, no doubt about that, but it was as a result of what Verstappen did to him in Austria, and he was burnt by that. Lewis’ rather churlish comments afterwards were pure hypocrisy in my opinion as he has pulled similar moves himself and got away with it , even stating that anyone attempting an overtake around the outside is asking to be put off the track. I also rail at his comment that if he hadn’t have been contesting the championship he would have crashed them both, this from a multiple world champion and “senior statesman” is a disgrace. The way to deal with this Lewis is to ask your former best friends dad e.g. deal out the same treatment the next time you are racing together. One final thing, Sebastian. So much written about the guy and so much that is unpleasant and unworthy on many other motor sports sites. Anyone with an ounce of knowledge about motorsport will see that the cars he has been given these past two years are not suiting his very particular style of driving, a trait that has been a factor at Ferrari since the last year of Michael’s reign at Maranello. I have never been the biggest fan of Sebastian as a driver but have the highest regard for him as a man, probably one of the most personable in the F1 paddock and an absolute joy to see interviewed. His piece with Martin Brundle at Fiorano was superb; Brundle “mate I am 60 years old”………. Seb “ driving a F1 car at 60, how cool is that”. Make no mistake with the correct car Sebastian is blindingly quick and will get the feel back, however he has a big challenge ahead of him at Ferrari with the emergence of Charles Leclerc, something he has not had to deal with in the past. Maybe he should return to the Fizzy Drinks team and take on Max, and no I don’t think it a foregone conclusion Max would blow his doors off, it would be tight. John Charles, Welcome back! It's refreshing to have your wise counsel return to the table, your views abundant with an authority no-one else has. Others may at times have the same opinion, but not the same depth of knowledge. In "Star Wars", few notice if R2-D2 squeaks the same message as Obi Wan-Kenobi. No wonder the droids were so often drunk...  Cheers, Carl |
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Post by mikael on Sept 10, 2019 4:36:14 GMT
Here is a nice footage of the event: Mikael, I just watched a third time on a larger screen. Beautiful car, beautiful sounds and legendary driver!
I remember seeing Jody Scheckter in a Trojan F5000 at Riverside early in 1973, where he qualified on pole and came second to Brian Redman in the race. He was lightning fast, unafraid of the throttle, and the focus of attention every time he approached the Turn 6 grandstand.
Seeing him drive the 312 T4 at Monza is so enjoyable, his prominent nose, as always, just behind the visor of one of the all time great helmet designs.
Thanks again, Carl Carl, you're most welcome. Yes, it was a lucky find; no disturbing narration; just track-side sound. A nice touch also that the mechanics were dressed up in complete 1979 outfits. Really like a step-back in time ...   |
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Post by chrisb on Sept 10, 2019 4:41:08 GMT
good morning all, as it has been said before and I do think it worth repeating, thank you to you all, this is just such a wonderful cauldron of sense and amusement, with exquisite manners and respect, complimented by everyone's contributions, viewpoints and experiences cheers chaps,
I tried to watch the C4 programme, it is 2 hours long but actually seemed an awful lot longer, in the end the only way to deal with the narcissistic so and so's was to turn the sound off until the race started, where for an unusual moment I found myself agreeing with DC, same as rugby, and Rob I totally agree the levels of fitness, muscle and speed in rugby now are frightening, I fear someone will get a serious injury and what the consequences are of that, but in saying that really looking forward to the world Cup, what we want from the stewards was consistency, which thus far this year I am not sure we have achieved that.
Charles was magnificent but honestly those blocks on Lewis were at best uncomfortable at worst bloody awful, I do have the sense of a bit of poetic justice going on here, for me it is the hypocrisy that goes with it that grinds on me.
Seb as a human being seems a class act, he is in a car that doesn't suit his style and struggles - relatively that is- to adapt to. For those of us who were brought up watching our heroes jump from one car to another and win 4 races in one day in saloon cars, F1, sports cars and a bicycle that seems strange but reflects that Seb is a tremendous driver but with a hesitation just how good are you Seb outside your comfort zone? he has dignity which I respect and hope when he does retire he does so with grace and style.
funny enough I haven't read the comments on Autosport, wonder what Gregor Grant would make of it
finally a British politician has done something we can be proud of!! arise Sir Geoffrey Boycott!!
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Post by chrisb on Sept 10, 2019 4:42:09 GMT
Mikael! brilliant photo's, a real racing car with a gorgeous sound
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Post by charleselan on Sept 10, 2019 13:24:37 GMT
Firstly many thanks to Jamie, Rob; René and Carl for you kind words very much appreciated and pm's to you. Carl as ever way too kind about my comments etc, I know a bit about periods that I grew up with and probably am too opinionated for my own good, but that is all, no sage. Last evening I decided to go over to the UK C4 catch up channel and watch their highlights package, seeing as i viewed the S*YF1 coverage over the weekend via the benevolence of the internet  , and at the same time the Swiss SFR transmission in German who have Marc Surer as co-commentator. My goodness C4 was awful, in my opinion. The only good thing was the inclusion of former Ferrari team manager Stefano Domenicali who was balanced and as fair as ever. Coulthard and Edwards were quite frankly dire, Coulthard in particular who without hesitation pronounced "penalty" as soon as Charles Leclerc pushed Hamilton wide, and then continued to bang on about these moves always get penalties. Well really, as we obviously haven't been watching the same races over the past years then have we. The same applied when Charles cut the second part of the first chicane, he gained no advantage so why the outcry of there having to be a penalty. The other unsavoury aspect coming again from Mr Coulthard who mentioned several times that he felt Sebastian Vettel was more or less finished. I quote "at 32 years of age he ain't going to get any quicker"; well he doesn't need to as he is plenty quick enough when in a car that suits his driving style. I personally feel that Sebastian's year fell apart after Canada where he drove brilliantly and then made a small error, no worse than any Charles had at Monza, but MB suckered a penalty out of the stewards and that hurt him, and still does. Interestingly towards the closing stages they began praising Charles Leclerc, which leads me to believe that someone maybe had a quiet word in their ears; however all in all it was pretty distasteful and such a contrast to the calm delivery of the Swiss coverage. I also must add that S*Y's coverage wasn't bad this weekend either, other than the local village idiot alongside a really excellent Martin Brundle. Martin was superb in the post race interview with Tonto where he really challenged him, the latter really doesn't like it when MB lose and unfortunately has a poor understanding of the larger picture. One more thing regarding Charles' move on Hamilton, I agree completely with Rob and Chris that hard brutal moves like that are not acceptable and will result in a very bad accident one day if not checked. I do not blame Charles however as he is not a driver who normally makes such a move, however as René mentions above it was his response to what Verstappen had done to him in Austria. At the end of the day it is the hypocrisy and the victim mentality that get me. S*Y also had a great little piece on Jody and his 1979 Ferrari T4 which featured a chat with him and seeing it run around Monza 40 years on. Interestingly Jody was wearing the exact same overalls who wore all those years ago and he was very proud that they still fitted him, farm work must suit him and it is always guaranteed to keep one fit . |
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Post by Carl on Sept 10, 2019 16:58:56 GMT
Firstly many thanks to Jamie, Rob; René and Carl for your kind words very much appreciated and pm's to you. Carl as ever way too kind about my comments etc, I know a bit about periods that I grew up with and probably am too opinionated for my own good, but that is all, no sage. Nonsense. A Jedi Master is predictably modest. |
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Good to have you back JC! 
, and at the same time the Swiss SFR transmission in German who have Marc Surer as co-commentator. My goodness C4 was awful, in my opinion. The only good thing was the inclusion of former Ferrari team manager Stefano Domenicali who was balanced and as fair as ever.