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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2019 22:07:13 GMT
I'm getting to the point at which i kind of hope Seb will retire... it's getting painful to watch:(
I so wanted things to improve again, but I'm losing hope.
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Post by Carl on Sept 8, 2019 23:41:12 GMT
What an epic Grand Prix! William Shakespeare could have written the dramatic twists of fate and revelations of character, stature lost and gained amidst moments of great driving. Charles Leclerc was astonishing, nearly faultless as he withstood the race-long challenge by the best team and fastest driver. His victory is already legendary.
Friday's demonstration run by Jody Scheckter in his 312 T4 wasn't shown, possibly because the broadcast in America is edited for time rather than quality. The Sky broadcast, also poorly produced, had to show several exciting moments in replay.
I enjoy being able to edit to suit myself by rewinding the tape now and then. Martin Brundle's judgment is flawless, but he can't know every detail. For example, who was sitting on either side of Piero Ferrari in the Ferrari garage and why was the tattooed luminary on his left always so excited?
And is lewd behavior fairly common beneath the massive Ferrari banners?
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Post by Carl on Sept 9, 2019 0:01:27 GMT
I'm getting to the point at which i kind of hope Seb will retire... it's getting painful to watch:( I so wanted things to improve again, but I'm losing hope. Don't despair or lose hope. Change is inevitable and can be refreshing. As an avid race fan famously said,
"All things must pass" - George Harrison
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Post by mikael on Sept 9, 2019 6:30:57 GMT
Friday's demonstration run by Jody Scheckter in his 312 T4 wasn't shown, possibly because the broadcast in America is edited for time rather than quality. The Sky broadcast, also poorly produced, had to show several exciting moments in replay. Here is a nice footage of the event: |
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Post by robmarsh on Sept 9, 2019 7:30:52 GMT
I'm getting to the point at which i kind of hope Seb will retire... it's getting painful to watch:( I so wanted things to improve again, but I'm losing hope. Don't despair or lose hope. Change is inevitable and can be refreshing. As an avid race fan famously said,
"All things must pass" - George Harrison
George obviously said this before Adrian Newey hit his straps! |
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Post by robmarsh on Sept 9, 2019 7:53:28 GMT
A great race and one which I will watch again this evening so I can really enjoy it. Charles is learning very quickly and the steel is certainly showing. I feel really sad for Seb but at the moment Charles has his measure. The only way for Seb to get out of this is to ride the punches and prove his class by good race results at Ferrari. He has to stay with Ferrari to do this and not go to another team.
The one thing I dislike intensely, and this feeling was magnified by the death of Antoine Hubert, is people who have never driven a formula 1 car, in a grand prix, feel they have the right to slag drivers off as if they are pathetic individuals and should be fired. This is really prevalent on the MotorSport site. To me it is akin to awarding yourself a Victoria Cross for winning a paintball game.
I must admit though that some of Charles' moves on Lewis left me with a feeling of unease, not that Hamilton is innocent of doing the same. This may be acceptable but it seems that the parameters have been moved to favour this kind of thing. A slight error of judgement or a decision not to yield will result in a huge crash and somebody will die. In Mark Hughes report he states that Hamilton said he would not have backed off if the championship had been decided and they would have crashed. Does this make the sport safer? It will only encourage the youngsters to follow suit. For those who follow rugby, Sam Warburton reckons that because of the speed and the size of modern rugby players, the collisions, or tackles between the players are getting to the stage where it is becoming increasingly likely that someone will die on the field, in full view of television audiences around the world. I agree with him and feel that Formula 1 could be heading in the same direction. I worry indeed.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 8:18:57 GMT
A great race and one which I will watch again this evening so I can really enjoy it. Charles is learning very quickly and the steel is certainly showing. I feel really sad for Seb but at the moment Charles has his measure. The only way for Seb to get out of this is to ride the punches and prove his class by good race results at Ferrari. He has to stay with Ferrari to do this and not go to another team. The one thing I dislike intensely, and this feeling was magnified by the death of Antoine Hubert, is people who have never driven a formula 1 car, in a grand prix, feel they have the right to slag drivers off as if they are pathetic individuals and should be fired. This is really prevalent on the MotorSport site. To me it is akin to awarding yourself a Victoria Cross for winning a paintball game. I must admit though that some of Charles' moves on Lewis left me with a feeling of unease, not that Hamilton is innocent of doing the same. This may be acceptable but it seems that the parameters have been moved to favour this kind of thing. A slight error of judgement or a decision not to yield will result in a huge crash and somebody will die. In Mark Hughes report he states that Hamilton said he would not have backed off if the championship had been decided and they would have crashed. Does this make the sport safer? It will only encourage the youngsters to follow suit. For those who follow rugby, Sam Warburton reckons that because of the speed and the size of modern rugby players, the collisions, or tackles between the players are getting to the stage where it is becoming increasingly likely that someone will die on the field, in full view of television audiences around the world. I agree with him and feel that Formula 1 could be heading in the same direction. I worry indeed.
This is essentially why i gave up on the Autosport site. It's a deeply unpleasant experience to visit there and serves to make me more grateful to Rene for here, where its possible to have reasoned discussion.
I also think some of the moves were over the edge, and agreed, Hamilton has been just as guilty in the past (as have others i only mention him as he was on the receiving end this time). I don't think this is a new thing, it has probably been around to some extent for as long as there has been racing, though i think there was a sea change around the Prost/Senna period.
I remember Rosberg bewailing the decline in driving standards around '84, i'm sure he wasn't the first, but that was merely for weaving/blocking, not the deliberate running off the track of opponents that they all seem to do these days.
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Post by Jamie on Sept 9, 2019 9:24:21 GMT
Great race and the scenes on the podium were incredible. This race will really mark Charles out as one of the top drivers, even more so than the first win at Spa.....a brilliant drive overall, though I did think some moves were marginal, but the norm now in modern F1.
Kudos to Hamilton and Bottas for giving it a go but they were never going to beat Leclerc here, not a chance.
A bad, bad day for Seb obviously, will Ferrari throw everything at CL now? I hope Seb recovers and wins a race or two this year for no other reason than I think he’s a decent chap.
Some amazing exchanges on the MS forum in response to Mark’s race report......there are some real odious characters on there now who just twist everything to their agenda, it’s utterly ridiculous some of the opinions banded round on there....god knows what Mark thinks of it all.
I even replied to some idiot on there earlier....made me feel grubby afterwards 😌
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 11:25:38 GMT
I'm getting to the point at which i kind of hope Seb will retire... it's getting painful to watch:( I so wanted things to improve again, but I'm losing hope. I'm wondering if Vettel is suffering from the motorsport equivalent of 'the yips'? It seems that his fine motor skills have deserted him on a number of occasions in the past few years. As you say, it is painful to see such a great driver in such a trough of form. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 12:17:40 GMT
When i came to the end of my racing i did a four race series as my sort of final hurrah. The first three went very well, but the last race, when i knew i was finishing. No matter how hard i tried i couldn't do any of the things that came easily before. I couldn't find my braking points, i couldn't hit the apices, everything went wrong... just a couple hours after i'd been racing really well... just something different in my head.
Of course i was no professional, let alone a very talented one, but... sometimes things just change in one's head.
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Post by mikael on Sept 9, 2019 14:10:35 GMT
Watching Jody Scheckter's 312 T4 makes you think (and makes you sentimental) ... the mechanical progress witnessed from, say, '59 to '69, and then again from '69 to '79, is really breathtaking. Since the ban of the wing-cars a few years later, the progress - at any rate the mechanical one - has more been in terms of aspects of small details.
Still, it will be interesting to see what the future will bring. Miniaturization of electronics has completely revolutionized the World (and F1!) as we know it. For a number of years, miniaturization of structures - and design of materials with microstructures - has been a hot research topic. So in the future, an aluminium plate (or a carbon fibre plate) may be replaced by an ultralight plate that, on a microscale, is not only porous but carefully designed. It will be interesting to see what impact this will have on the racing cars of the future. It may lead to something we can hardly imagine at present (a second mechanical revolution?). |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 14:23:54 GMT
It is great to see the T4 again, i am also one of those people for whom it was not an ugly car... in fact my favourite F1 car is the T5, even though it was an abject failure, the world having moved on apace.
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Post by Carl on Sept 9, 2019 15:54:13 GMT
Don't despair or lose hope. Change is inevitable and can be refreshing. As an avid race fan famously said,
"All things must pass" - George Harrison
George obviously said this before Adrian Newey hit his straps! Brilliant!  |
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Post by Carl on Sept 9, 2019 15:55:08 GMT
Friday's demonstration run by Jody Scheckter in his 312 T4 wasn't shown, possibly because the broadcast in America is edited for time rather than quality. The Sky broadcast, also poorly produced, had to show several exciting moments in replay. Here is a nice footage of the event: Thanks Mikael! |
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Post by Carl on Sept 9, 2019 16:56:26 GMT
A great race and one which I will watch again this evening so I can really enjoy it. Charles is learning very quickly and the steel is certainly showing. I feel really sad for Seb but at the moment Charles has his measure. The only way for Seb to get out of this is to ride the punches and prove his class by good race results at Ferrari. He has to stay with Ferrari to do this and not go to another team. The one thing I dislike intensely, and this feeling was magnified by the death of Antoine Hubert, is people who have never driven a formula 1 car, in a grand prix, feel they have the right to slag drivers off as if they are pathetic individuals and should be fired. This is really prevalent on the MotorSport site. To me it is akin to awarding yourself a Victoria Cross for winning a paintball game. I must admit though that some of Charles' moves on Lewis left me with a feeling of unease, not that Hamilton is innocent of doing the same. This may be acceptable but it seems that the parameters have been moved to favour this kind of thing. A slight error of judgement or a decision not to yield will result in a huge crash and somebody will die. In Mark Hughes report he states that Hamilton said he would not have backed off if the championship had been decided and they would have crashed. Does this make the sport safer? It will only encourage the youngsters to follow suit. For those who follow rugby, Sam Warburton reckons that because of the speed and the size of modern rugby players, the collisions, or tackles between the players are getting to the stage where it is becoming increasingly likely that someone will die on the field, in full view of television audiences around the world. I agree with him and feel that Formula 1 could be heading in the same direction. I worry indeed. Rob, I agree that competitive demands have been wound tighter and tighter, and in all sports. Not sure why, but this seems to coincide with a distortion of corporate involvement into control. Boardrooms tend to have a narrow focus but very broad expectations within that focus. Is Heineken now to be part of the official title of the Grand Prix... !?
All sports fans are irrational. I was when I was younger and idolized Sandy Koufax in baseball and Jerry West in basketball. My heroes in racing were Jim Clark and Dan Gurney, and I still believe neither could do wrong.
Nowadays I admire great driving talent without necessarily admiring the person, but don't want anyone fired. If they can set lap times, they belong.
Along with competitive demands, and with the advent of social media, celebrity worship has also intensified beyond reason. I don't wait for the announcement that "Elvis has left the building" to leave the uproar behind myself.
When you leave early, it takes less time to get home. 
Cheers, Carl
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