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Post by charleselan on Nov 10, 2018 10:02:45 GMT
Just to clarify a point. I wasn't referring to the BRDC as fools, but Liberty Media. The latter are on many counts, firstly by purchasing the rights of a failing set up, and secondly believing that they could sustain the business model instigated by Ecclestone, which is nothing more than extortion.
OK I am quite happy for LM to continue the practice and take it to the Far East and other places which allow either oil rich oligarchs or dictators to promote their wretched regimes, that would be a fitting end to a once great category of motor sport.
Swallowed up by its own insane greed.
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Post by René on Nov 10, 2018 12:05:57 GMT
To have no English Grand Prix and one in Vietnam is insane.
And to have an English Grand Prix, and not a British one, would be worse 🇬🇧 No more semantic 'Anglo-Saxon' discussions on this forum please! Well, I think I've catched up now... pfew..
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Post by Carl on Nov 10, 2018 17:24:34 GMT
A mistake made in haste! In my defense, the British Grand Prix has always been in England but its proper name rightfully includes all of Great Britain.
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Post by Carl on Nov 10, 2018 17:53:31 GMT
To have no English Grand Prix and one in Vietnam is insane.
And to have an English Grand Prix, and not a British one, would be worse 🇬🇧
A British Grand Prix by any name would smell as sweet!
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Post by René on Nov 10, 2018 21:21:03 GMT
Close qualy so we're in for a good race I feel. Ferrari was strong on the softs and I think they will win it. Glad Seb escaped a real penalty after the weigh bridge incident (only fined $25.000... ). Did you guys see that moment between Sirotkin and Lewis? Yeez that was close and could have been a really nasty accident. Leclerc's Q2 performance was stellar. He's good, very good.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 21:42:41 GMT
I've just watched the Qualifying Session, there were some enthralling incidents. It was a very heads up move by Ferrari to switch to the Soft tyres in Q2, when they realised that rain was going to mean the times wouldn't improve through the session. It was nearly undone by the unfortunate timing of Vettel being called to the weighbridge, and more so by Vettel's frustrated reaction to that. I see that he's avoided a grid penalty for that, but despite my earlier defences of his behaviour, this looks like further evidence that Vettel is overwrought, and is going to need to get into a calmer frame of mind if he is going to mount a successful challenge for the WDC next season.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 21:51:09 GMT
Do any of the group have a good understanding of the tyre technology in F1? I think I understand the mechanics of how it is applied, ie, having seven tyre compounds, using three per weekend, etc, etc. The bit that I'd like to have a better understanding of is, why do we have this 'high degradation' format, and what alternatives are there to that? Plus, what was done in the past, and how was that different?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 22:08:50 GMT
No more semantic 'Anglo-Saxon' discussions on this forum please! No problem Rene, but don't take it badly when I suggest that Verstappen already has a 'home GP', at Spa 😏
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 23:58:34 GMT
Leclerc's Q2 performance was stellar. He's good, very good. That was very impressive, he was the only driver who improved his position at that stage of Q2 It should be exciting to see him in the Ferrari next season. Hopefully in combination with Vettel, they can break the Mercedes stranglehold on the WCC and WDC
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Post by Carl on Nov 11, 2018 3:56:04 GMT
Close qualy so we're in for a good race I feel. Ferrari was strong on the softs and I think they will win it. Glad Seb escaped a real penalty after the weigh bridge incident (only fined $25.000... ). Did you guys see that moment between Sirotkin and Lewis? Yeez that was close and could have been a really nasty accident. Leclerc's Q2 performance was stellar. He's good, very good. Rene, Charles LeClerc's stunning final lap in Q2 made it clear he'll be competitive right away at Ferrari. His brilliance was the saving grace of a tyre-obsessed qualifying session during which we learned that a temper tantrum at the weighbridge is taken more seriously by the F.I.A. than recklessly causing another driver to take extreme evasive action.
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Post by Carl on Nov 11, 2018 4:41:47 GMT
Do any of the group have a good understanding of the tyre technology in F1? I think I understand the mechanics of how it is applied, ie, having seven tyre compounds, using three per weekend, etc, etc. The bit that I'd like to have a better understanding of is, why do we have this 'high degradation' format, and what alternatives are there to that? Plus, what was done in the past, and how was that different? Some think I am full of hot air and should know about pneumatics, a slur I accept because a working brain generates heat, but tyre technology is at best an impenetrable black art and insane teeter-totter.
Early tyres failed so frequently that race cars carried three or four spares between Paris and Madrid, to be painstakingly attached to the more solid wheel rim when they inevitably failed. The main progress from 1903 to now is that fresh tyres are mounted in advance, but the technology still ensures frequent failure.
I see the multitude of tyre compounds as the wrong solution to a problem of aerodynamics. Next year there will be only soft, medium and hard, plus intermediate and full wet. In combination with wing reductions, hopefully control will return to drivers and alleviate the current hyper-nonsense. High degradation was supposed to mean more grip and more passing, but has only meant more pit stops. In the past, several tyre manufacturers competed each year to best achieve the elusive balance of grip and longevity needed to win. For a magical interval during the 1950s, 60s and 70s, tyres had both qualities in good balance and drivers had only not to abuse them. Then someone decided to upset the apple cart with planned fuel stops...and before long pit strategy and tyre choice were the keys to winning races. Instead of driving...
Tyre technology has progressed from a guarantee of frequent failure to today's certain degradation, the insane teeter-totter I mentioned earlier. No wonder Pirelli alchemists are all fou comme des huards
-Bibendum
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Post by chrisb on Nov 11, 2018 8:31:18 GMT
the modern tyre technology on circuit leaves me cold and bored, however tyre technology on the road is fascinating as I use Michelins on my bike and rate them very highly mainly as I reside in the NE of England and I find them pretty good in the wet.
I never quite understood why F1 went the single tyre manufacturer route, to me that was just so negative and reduced a great deal of excitement, ah, is that the reason?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 9:02:31 GMT
the modern tyre technology on circuit leaves me cold and bored, however tyre technology on the road is fascinating as I use Michelins on my bike and rate them very highly mainly as I reside in the NE of England and I find them pretty good in the wet. I never quite understood why F1 went the single tyre manufacturer route, to me that was just so negative and reduced a great deal of excitement, ah, is that the reason? Fair enough Chris, the F1 tyre technology is pretty turgid. But it is such a dominant factor in current racing that I think a better understanding might make it easier to understand some of the strategies, and even some of the things that happen during a race weekend. I also have an interest in road tyres, and a fan of Michelins on my GTi.They also work well in the wet here in NZ. The single tyre strategy was probably a commercial decision, being down to Bernie, but it was 'sold' as being beneficial to the racing, as it put all the teams on an even basis. I think that it was a good thing, as when you look back you can see that in periods where there were tyres wars, typically one tyre manufacturer dominated the season, and their lead team won the championship - so far from exciting.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 10:05:22 GMT
Do any of the group have a good understanding of the tyre technology in F1? I think I understand the mechanics of how it is applied, ie, having seven tyre compounds, using three per weekend, etc, etc. The bit that I'd like to have a better understanding of is, why do we have this 'high degradation' format, and what alternatives are there to that? Plus, what was done in the past, and how was that different? Some think I am full of hot air and should know about pneumatics, a slur I accept because a working brain generates heat, but tyre technology is at best an impenetrable black art and insane teeter-totter.
Early tyres failed so frequently that race cars carried three or four spares between Paris and Madrid, to be painstakingly attached to the more solid wheel rim when they inevitably failed. The main progress from 1903 to now is that fresh tyres are mounted in advance, but the technology still ensures frequent failure.
I see the multitude of tyre compounds as the wrong solution to a problem of aerodynamics. Next year there will be only soft, medium and hard, plus intermediate and full wet. In combination with wing reductions, hopefully control will return to drivers and alleviate the current hyper-nonsense. High degradation was supposed to mean more grip and more passing, but has only meant more pit stops. In the past, several tyre manufacturers competed each year to best achieve the elusive balance of grip and longevity needed to win. For a magical interval during the 1950s, 60s and 70s, tyres had both qualities in good balance and drivers had only not to abuse them. Then someone decided to upset the apple cart with planned fuel stops...and before long pit strategy and tyre choice were the keys to winning races. Instead of driving...
Tyre technology has progressed from a guarantee of frequent failure to today's certain degradation, the insane teeter-totter I mentioned earlier. No wonder Pirelli alchemists are all fou comme des huards
-Bibendum
Nice work Carl, that clarifies things completely. It's not just Pirelli's alchemists is it? ;-) It certainly seems that whatever the intent of Hi-Degradation tyres was, it has been lost.
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Post by René on Nov 11, 2018 11:04:14 GMT
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