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Post by charleselan on Aug 24, 2018 9:55:17 GMT
I see that you are amongst quite a few Red Bull and Orange supporters René.
Also what a contrast between your photo and those from yesteryear.
Have a greta time.
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Post by mikael on Aug 25, 2018 6:26:37 GMT
It's interesting to ponder on the problems with the McLaren. After FP2 (Friday) Gil de Ferran (Sporting Director) said as follows: "Overall today has proved to be a difficult day for us. This circuit with its long straights is really exposing one of our biggest weaknesses in straight-line speed. In a short article posted just the other day on "grandprix.com", one can read the following: "Former F1 driver, Marc Surer,thinks McLaren went off the wrong track during the Honda years. "If you look at where they are now, I think Honda was never so bad," he is quoted by AS newspaper. "They'd be exactly where they are if the Honda was still in there. I think the engineers were fooling themselves by thinking they had the best chassis on the grid. "They were slowest on the straights and fastest in the corners, but anyone can do that if you have enough downforce on it," Surer added. So it makes you wonder what the McLaren engineers now think is the main reason for this still remaining "big weakness", the missing straight-line speed. Sources: www.grandprix.com/races/belgian-gp-2018-friday-team-quotes.htmlwww.grandprix.com/news/sainz-success-to-take-years-says-button.html
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2018 9:02:48 GMT
In Italy they say “il tempo e’ gentiluomo”, time is a gentleman, in other words, give it time and truth will come out.
The McLaren case is another one where Zak’s PR soundbites are sold by the press (British) as “news”, without critical analysis whatsoever. They were all keen to do the post-mortem to Ron Dennis, very convenient as once he was out of the team they could finally spill out the beans without fear of reprisals and, at the same, ingratiating the incumbent (Zak, in the circumstance), who isn’t worth a finger of Dennis, in a vicious circle of delusions team-media. A bit like Brexit, the same culture.
The fact that a small man like Zak (I will for a moment commiserate Alonso and all those who take him for a genius) could think they could get away by smearing a company like Honda, tells exactly how big McLaren’s problems are. [will look with some interest to dynamics at the fizz drinks in the next couple of years, but won’t hold my breath either]
Nobody, not MS, nor Autosport or F1 Magazine, has investigated what is going on at McLaren, at the root. They have only observed the stasis and regression of the F1 team, without explaining what is actually happening, what is the thinking upstairs. What is the current ownership, after Dennis relinquished his 25%, who holds the ball and is the decision maker, what is really going on – long term plans, commercial and industrial strategy etc. Is the F1 team still the centre of the company, or they just want to sell supercars. And why would I want to buy a Mclaren when I could get Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini or even a Bugatti?
Is making and selling supercars and, at the same time, running a successful F1 team, compatible for an independent company like McLaren? I will spare you my answer.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2018 9:23:17 GMT
Reading elsewhere a short summary of the lengths the Strolls have gone all through Jr's career.
Daddy has bought everything over the years. When he was 11 years old he joined the Ferrari Drivers Academy, with his father as a Ferrari sponsor. They hired Mike Wilson as tutor who then stated that "If no top team hires him in Formula 1, then his father will buy or create one for him ".
He then bought Prema, the top Formula 3 team where Lance won the title, with the former Ferrari engineer Luca Baldisseri as advisor.
He then paid for a new simulator calibrated for the F3, which in Williams not even Massa and Bottas were allowed to use.
Now he has bought Force India.
The Strolls won't give up.
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Post by René on Aug 25, 2018 9:47:48 GMT
Mikael, I agree the demise of McLaren is intriguing. How can a team with such a history of winning and serious cash to spend fall so far behind? There is obviously a lack of vision and ideas but I feel not only in the management but also in the design department! Peter Prodromou was highly rated at Red Bull but maybe he is not the man with ideas to lead the department.
What I found most disturbing during the Honda years was McLaren's lack of self reflection; it was all Honda's fault. The Honda PU was very far behind at first, there's no denying that. But it is clear now for all to see that the lack of progress over the years was not only Honda's shortcoming. And from the moment McLaren/Alonso started to blame Honda in public, the project was doomed.
The very sad part is how this has damaged (and potentially ended) the F1 career of Stoffel Vandoorne. Anyone who has followed the lower formulae with half an eye open knows how talented the young Belgium is. I have seen him win in lower classes at Spa and he was always very convincing. A very descent bloke also. But McLaren have failed to give him a car that works for him, probably because everything and everyone is focussed on the Spaniard. Yesterday at Spa it was just very painful to see how McLaren couldn't give him a working car at his home Grand Prix. Let's hope they don't destroy Lando Norris's career also.
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Post by mikael on Aug 25, 2018 14:24:30 GMT
Ocon third in the Force India - fabulous!
A real shame if he's going to loose that seat - to Lance Stroll.
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Post by charleselan on Aug 25, 2018 14:38:25 GMT
A difficult day trying to balance Spa qualifying and the British MotoGP qualification, not written in the right order . The rain at Silverstone and issues from that allowed me to watch the F1, gutted for Kimi as he has looked superb all weekend, and definitely had the measure of his team mate. As John Watson used to say "he must have run over a nun at sometime". The current McLaren scenario is a disgrace and it is an insult to the great man Bruce McLaren, especially as the media "guru" Chubby Brown has the cars decked out in orange, Some great posts above guys, really excellent and enjoyable reading.
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Post by chrisb on Aug 25, 2018 16:34:53 GMT
like you JC caught in two places and the chaos/ excitement of what was Silverstone and the F1 at Spa, the worst circuit won my attention but sorry to have missed the F1, however, did follow it online as it happened and it looked pretty exciting, but am puzzled, how does one team go from bankruptcy one week to 3rd and 4th at Spa - awesome story, shame about next year but thankfully that will mean megamonied 'person' will go elsewhere- and Williams may survive this horrid time.
I do find it a crying shame just how far McLaren have dropped, they've been there before - with the advent of ground effect they went backwards and in walks RD and some designer fellow called John Barnard - is this a case of possibly history repeating itself?
it would be a real shame that so many potentially good drivers are being denied more than ever from a decent seat because of Daddy's money or connections and Vandorne and Ocon show some good speed, hope they get decent seats next year
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Post by charleselan on Aug 25, 2018 18:19:47 GMT
Please excuse my meanderings here, but one or two points that really irk me about current F1, other than the toilet seat which i hate to repetition and will never get accustomed too.
I have read a bit about how Stroll Snr's consortium purchasing the team that was once Jordan has saved jobs etc etc, However the one overriding issue is that he bought it primarily to allow his son to drive in F1 in a car that was obviously better than what the once great team Williams can now produce. If his off spring was anything remotely handy then I would not have much of an issue with it, however he isn't, and no matter what seat Stroll Jnr sits in he will never amount to a bag of beans.
The most tasteless thing about this manoeuvre is the fact that, one maybe two, much more talented lads are going to be without a ride which is an absolute crime. As an example, do Premiere League (or any other division) Football teams employ players who come with a bag of gold, or have their fathers buy a team and let them play; simple answer, no they do not! Motor racing may have always been a rich mans sport, but this is beyond the pale.
My second issue, if I may call it that, is the situation regarding McLaren. I find it hard to believe that the person put into place to follow the ousted Ron Dennis, still holds down that position. He has poorly managed that F1team from day one, pandering to his so called "super star" driver, and at the detriment to all around them. Firstly Teflonso's outbursts against Honda were hugely damaging to all concerned and an insult to the proud Japanese company. His unprofessional conduct throughout that period was nothing short of a disgrace, and for most people that would have resulted in being dismissed.
It is pretty obvious that the team are in turmoil and have been for a few years now. In situations like that they need a leader and someone who knows how to manage, not some mini media mogul who hasn't the faintest idea. What fool would release details of signing a designer from another team to the public when it had not been finalised correctly, words fail me there.....
Also one must question the handling of Vandoorne who as René points out had a magnificent early career, and comes across as a decent lad as well. It appears that he is about to join the ranks of K Mag and Sergio Perez as McLaren cast off's who did not deserve that status. I just hope he comes out of it as well as they both have, and gets a chance with another more supportive team.
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Post by Jamie on Aug 25, 2018 21:32:28 GMT
The 4G signal is pretty bad where I am at the moment so just catching up on the days events. Interesting comments above particularly on the McLaren issue....it really is a crap state of affairs isn’t it. I hoped it would be better this year but I think there are long lost tribes in the Amazon who recognised that a switch to the third best (possibly fourth) engine on the grid was not going to catapult them to the front. The problems lie elsewhere anyway and the car is a shed. It’s not rocket science...Zak must be on extremely shaky ground. Being just about the worst F1 car on the grid can’t be much of a selling point for the road cars either so this needs sorting quickly. I wonder if the Bahrainis still have Ron Dennis’ phone number?
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Post by Jamie on Aug 25, 2018 21:49:54 GMT
Blimey...Bob Fearnley has left Force India (or whatever it’s called today)! I’d have thought that was a bad move unless Bob went of his own accord of course, haven’t really looked into the reasons.
There you go McLaren, go and get Bob sharpish. Gil DeFerran, though undoubtedly a nice chap, isn’t the answer.
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Post by Carl on Aug 25, 2018 22:49:32 GMT
After Colin Chapman's original sin in exchange for tobacco money, didn't Bernie Ecclestone and Ron Dennis both open the door far wider to what is now almost unlimited corporate involvement in Formula One? Where corporations are predominant, so is money. And so we have Team Stroll. Zak Brown was hired by a royal family investment company in Bahrain which now controls McLaren. Is there even slight knowledge of motor sport in that board room? He works for a company in disarray and may not even have a clear mandate. The aftermath of the bitter hatred between Dennis and Mansour Ojjeh also gave pace to the team's dysfunction. A fool he may be, but do the royals see motor sport as anything more than an amusing distraction? Money has always been necessary to win races, but today's massive corporate involvement has made driving secondary to corporate prestige as Mercedes, Red Bull, Pirelli and others jostle for center stage. No longer in the hands of team owners who loved the sport, the essence of racing is now a competition for the largest, most elaborate hospitality center.
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Post by Carl on Aug 25, 2018 23:47:13 GMT
I hope after being denied a chance to retain pole position, Kimi Raikkonen has the race of his career tomorrow and wins by half a lap.
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Post by robmarsh on Aug 26, 2018 10:08:09 GMT
After Colin Chapman's original sin in exchange for tobacco money, didn't Bernie Ecclestone and Ron Dennis both open the door far wider to what is now almost unlimited corporate involvement in Formula One? Where corporations are predominant, so is money. And so we have Team Stroll. Zak Brown was hired by a royal family investment company in Bahrain which now controls McLaren. Is there even slight knowledge of motor sport in that board room? He works for a company in disarray and may not even have a clear mandate. The aftermath of the bitter hatred between Dennis and Mansour Ojjeh also gave pace to the team's dysfunction. A fool he may be, but do the royals see motor sport as anything more than an amusing distraction? Money has always been necessary to win races, but today's massive corporate involvement has made driving secondary to corporate prestige as Mercedes, Red Bull, Pirelli and others jostle for center stage. No longer in the hands of team owners who loved the sport, the essence of racing is now a competition for the largest, most elaborate hospitality center.
Carl you make an excellent point about F1 being an amusing distraction to the Saudi family. When the company I was with was investigating setting up an aviation FBO, I visited Stanstead to get an idea on how to go about it. Whilst we were there a private Boeing 747 from one of the Arab states landed and the five passengers got off. We got talking about this and other aviation excesses that these people regard as normal life. Things like sending a 737 from the Arabian gulf to pick up a dinner gown that was ready or having two 747s parked at Stanstead during the English horse racing season in case the owner needed to return home in a hurry and one 747 wouldn't start. I kid you not. Is it no wonder then that there is no guidance from the owners of McLaren? It is a mere bagatelle!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 15:22:34 GMT
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