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Post by charleselan on Apr 9, 2018 13:47:41 GMT
When I started recording races far enough in advance to fast forward past boring commercials, I didn't expect I would one day fast forward entire segments of races. When the announcers began to focus almost exclusively on pit strategy (at lap 10!) I began to lose interest. The last several laps were exciting, but Mercedes and Bottas waited too long to prevail against the experienced Vettel and it was a well-deserved victory for Ferrari's number one. Be forewarned: As a curmudgeon, I have every right to be displeased. I've been surprised that new American broadcaster ESPN would make Leigh Diffey's previous dramatics on NBC seem acceptable, but the producers at Sky TV really should consider tranquilizing David Croft. Poor Martin Brundle knows exactly what's happening in the race but seems bound to forbearance as others descend into a hyperbolic Wonderland. When Hamilton and Verstappen made contact, "WHO'S GOT THE PUNCTURE?" was loudly repeated several times although calm appraisal made clear it was Verstappen. When Raikkonen was released too soon, the immediate conclusion was "THE WHEELNUTS NOT BEEN TIGHTENED!!" when calm appraisal made clear that the wheel itself had not even been fitted. Do all announcers feel they must introduce false dramatic narrative? “Curiouser and curiouser!” Cried Alice (she was so much surprised, that for the moment she quite forgot how to speak good English).” - Alice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll When Daniel Ricciardo was referred to as "Danny Ric" by Paul di Resta (Pauly Dee?), it simply sounded silly. While ovals are less interesting than road courses, yesterday's IndyCar race at Phoenix was overall a more exciting race because the cars can get close without losing nearly as much downforce. The only downside was Leigh Diffey's overdone theatrics being moved by NBC to IndyCar broadcasts. Carl, So many of the commentary teams these days leave a great deal to be desired, it is very difficult to find any that are remotely palatable in my opinion. The UK S*Y set up have for some time been truly nauseous, and I can never forgive their "lynch mob" actions after Spa 2015 with regard to Nico Rosberg, particularly that unctuous character Kravitz. I find it strange that Nico now happily works with that set up, after those events. David Croft was a half decent commentator when he was doing on the radio for BBC Sport, but has become far too much a legend in his own lunch time these days. Mind you Ben Edwards was very good when he was the Eurosport co presenter many years ago, but has declined since working on the Channel 4 transmission; however when on Eurosport he had the superb john Watson alongside him who no doubt kept him on the straight and narrow. Unlike Coultard who has to be one of the least informative and engaging of co commentators around which is such a shame as he is in his element when doing other TV work e.g. excellent with Guy Martin when they did a comparison with a Superbike and F1 car. The BT Sport MotoGP team leave something to be desired also; Neil Hodgson (ex WSBK World Champion) is very good but the "main" commentator Keith Heuwen (ex racer) is pardon my language a total Gob Sh*te; if you think Diffy is bad for gabbling on them you should hear this guy!! All said in a rather unattractive Londonesque vocal style. The best commentary team by far is that of Eurosports British Superbike boys, James Whitham and Jack Burnacle; yes dear old Jack get is wrong sometimes but then so did the icon that was Murray Walker. A top pairing and a delight to listen to.
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Post by Jamie on Apr 9, 2018 14:15:47 GMT
The best commentator for me is Davide Valsecchi who does the F2 races for Sky. Not necessarily for the content but for the shear enthusiasm.......he gets so excited, pure theatre and makes any race seem brilliant. His commentary always makes me smile.
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Post by René on Apr 9, 2018 14:29:33 GMT
When I started recording races far enough in advance to fast forward past boring commercials, I didn't expect I would one day fast forward entire segments of races. When the announcers began to focus almost exclusively on pit strategy (at lap 10!) I began to lose interest. The last several laps were exciting, but Mercedes and Bottas waited too long to prevail against the experienced Vettel and it was a well-deserved victory for Ferrari's number one. Be forewarned: As a curmudgeon, I have every right to be displeased. I've been surprised that new American broadcaster ESPN would make Leigh Diffey's previous dramatics on NBC seem acceptable, but the producers at Sky TV really should consider tranquilizing David Croft. Poor Martin Brundle knows exactly what's happening in the race but seems bound to forbearance as others descend into a hyperbolic Wonderland. When Hamilton and Verstappen made contact, "WHO'S GOT THE PUNCTURE?" was loudly repeated several times although calm appraisal made clear it was Verstappen. When Raikkonen was released too soon, the immediate conclusion was "THE WHEELNUTS NOT BEEN TIGHTENED!!" when calm appraisal made clear that the wheel itself had not even been fitted. Do all announcers feel they must introduce false dramatic narrative? “Curiouser and curiouser!” Cried Alice (she was so much surprised, that for the moment she quite forgot how to speak good English).” - Alice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll When Daniel Ricciardo was referred to as "Danny Ric" by Paul di Resta (Pauly Dee?), it simply sounded silly. While ovals are less interesting than road courses, yesterday's IndyCar race at Phoenix was overall a more exciting race because the cars can get close without losing nearly as much downforce. The only downside was Leigh Diffey's overdone theatrics being moved by NBC to IndyCar broadcasts. Carl, So many of the commentary teams these days leave a great deal to be desired, it is very difficult to find any that are remotely palatable in my opinion. The UK S*Y set up have for some time been truly nauseous, and I can never forgive their "lynch mob" actions after Spa 2015 with regard to Nico Rosberg, particularly that unctuous character Kravitz. I find it strange that Nico now happily works with that set up, after those events. David Croft was a half decent commentator when he was doing on the radio for BBC Sport, but has become far too much a legend in his own lunch time these days. Mind you Ben Edwards was very good when he was the Eurosport co presenter many years ago, but has declined since working on the Channel 4 transmission; however when on Eurosport he had the superb john Watson alongside him who no doubt kept him on the straight and narrow. Unlike Coultard who has to be one of the least informative and engaging of co commentators around which is such a shame as he is in his element when doing other TV work e.g. excellent with Guy Martin when they did a comparison with a Superbike and F1 car. The BT Sport MotoGP team leave something to be desired also; Neil Hodgson (ex WSBK World Champion) is very good but the "main" commentator Keith Heuwen (ex racer) is pardon my language a total Gob Sh*te; if you think Diffy is bad for gabbling on them you should hear this guy!! All said in a rather unattractive Londonesque vocal style. The best commentary team by far is that of Eurosports British Superbike boys, James Whitham and Jack Burnacle; yes dear old Jack get is wrong sometimes but then so did the icon that was Murray Walker. A top pairing and a delight to listen to. It's not much better on Dutch television. Commentator Olav Mol and pit reporter Jack Plooij are both clowns with an unbelievable shallow knowledge of the sport. Furthermore, their biased view towards Verstappen (first Jos and now Max) is more than annoying. I understand their enthusiasm for Max because he is the first Dutch Grand Prix winner (which is great) but that shouldn't cloud their professional analysis of the events which it does all the time. And then their knowledge of the English language. I don't mind an accent but after working for more than 20 years as a (well paid) professional in an environment where the main language is English, you would expect a descent vocabulary. And I can tell you, it's pathetic. In general I prefer the German team with Heiko Wasser and (former driver) Christian Danner. Certainly Danner is really good in this role; cool, analytical with sometimes a dry sense of humor. Also pit reporter Florian König is good. Unfortunately Niki Lauda stopped with his commentary work this season. His comments were always one of the highlights of the weekend!
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Post by chrisb on Apr 9, 2018 16:01:45 GMT
chaps - wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments, i quite like the commentators on Dorna MotoGP TV, however they got so sycophantic about Marquez yesterday i could have thrown up
the biggest disappointment is Ben Edwards who once was the best he seems to be on some sort of medication that effects his judgement and DC I just don't get - at times he is really very good, presumably when he is 'himself' and not a caricature but other times it is nauseating,
dream would be Lee McKenzie opening the show with a settled Ben and Martin Brundle back at his original personality and Tom Clarkson in the pits
James Whittam is so wonderfully cutting and quite agree Charles, it is the best, although I do miss Steve Parish
BTCC has the great Steve Rider and Louise but the commentator seems to have a problem with his adenoids
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Post by Carl on Apr 9, 2018 16:09:43 GMT
The problem may stem from an obsession with audience numbers. The network contempt for the intelligence of viewers leads to lack of concern for good presentation. I'm sure announcers (presenters) are told to act like idiots. And they do a good job.
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Post by chrisb on Apr 9, 2018 16:38:02 GMT
they do seem successful at being stupid don't they?
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Post by robmarsh on Apr 9, 2018 17:16:26 GMT
Back to the race. Imagine how much more exciting the last 15 or even 20 laps could have been if we didn't know what tyre compounds they were on. I think Vettel did a superb job, a pity for Kimi and more so for the poor mechanic. I saw a slo-mo and it was horrible. I think this total reliance on technology is becoming dangerous.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 18:56:25 GMT
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Post by mikael on Apr 10, 2018 3:31:16 GMT
Regarding commentary: Yes, it would really be ideal with no commentary at all, just like by the German GP 1965 on the Nürburgring, posted in the Jim Clark thread by JC.
Here's an example of what I think would be ideal (Grand Prix Austria 1973): No commentary at all, just the name of the driver in focus shown by text, and occasionally, a review of the positions.
The Japan national TV, NHK, have for many years (at least since the mid-90s) broadcast their main news bilingually (Japanese and English) via the stereo sound signal. Japanese in sent in the one speaker and English in the other. One can then, via the remote control, turn off the undesired language (or hear both at a time!). The commentary of sport events, like F1, could be sent in the same way, such that it could be turned off. It would be at the expense of the engine sound in stereo - but I would much prefer the engine sound in mono and no commentary.
But the commentators would probably consider themselves too important to agree on a system like that ...
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Post by mikael on Apr 10, 2018 4:06:43 GMT
The interesting article of Nigel Roebuck in Motorsport, pre-season 2015, where he compared some unfortunate career choices of Chris Amon and Fernando Alonso, resonates strongly upon the latest GP. To insist on a divorce with Honda for then to see them starting to come good just after that - it's just in line with what the article referred to hinted at. Reference: www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/amon-and-alonso
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Post by chrisb on Apr 10, 2018 4:42:40 GMT
I had always thought the commentary was to inform us of what we didn't know not to 'heighten' the excitement, the racing needed to do that-
in one of the strangest but extremely exciting MotoGP races I can recollect they have 3 tyres, why oh why cannot F1 follow that? the great races of say Stirling in Argentinia [58?] Jimmy too many to mention and Alain again where they looked after their tyres, Senna was the same and you saw the talents of a quick driver managing his situation, we talk of respect - well maybe Ross, you need to respect the current driver's abilities and rid us of all these gimmicks
Methinks Alonso's frustrations not to emulate Michael's WDC's has definitely clouded his judgement, Chris on the other hand, believed the wrong person at the wrong time
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Post by charleselan on Apr 10, 2018 12:19:14 GMT
Regarding commentary: Yes, it would really be ideal with no commentary at all, just like by the German GP 1965 on the Nürburgring, posted in the Jim Clark thread by JC. Here's an example of what I think would be ideal (Grand Prix Austria 1973): No commentary at all, just the name of the driver in focus shown by text, and occasionally, a review of the positions. The Japan national TV, NHK, have for many years (at least since the mid-90s) broadcast their main news bilingually (Japanese and English) via the stereo sound signal. Japanese in sent in the one speaker and English in the other. One can then, via the remote control, turn off the undesired language (or hear both at a time!). The commentary of sport events, like F1, could be sent in the same way, such that it could be turned off. It would be at the expense of the engine sound in stereo - but I would much prefer the engine sound in mono and no commentary. But the commentators would probably consider themselves too important to agree on a system like that ... Mikael, Excellent comment. This is what makes those films so brilliant in my opinion, almost like being there in person and out of reach of the circuit commentators as well. Good commentary is very difficult to find these days in most sports and older boys like myself can hark back to the "good old days" when the commentators were stars in their own right, and dare I say it, for the English listener it was well spoken English with an air of education and knowledge. Little doubt that the very best motor racing commentator was Raymond Baxter (ex WW2 fighter pilot) along with Robin Richards (mainly radio) and John Bolster (in the pits). For motorcycle racing on the radio it has to be Murray Walker's father Graham who was fantastic on the Isle Of Man. We then we had the following, probably not everyones cup of tea but iconic none the less, John Arlott; Fred Truman and Brian Johnstone (Cricket); Kenneth Wolstenholme (Football) and maybe John Motson if one can get over the cliché's); Dan Maskell (Tennis), Harry Carpenter (Boxing); and unbelievably still going strong Peter Alliss (Golf). René mentioned above Christian Danner on German TV, I have not seen him in that role but have no doubt that he is very good as Christian is a clever and knowledgeable guy, and a pretty fine driver in his day. Niki Lauda would be good in any language, keen sense of humour and unimpeachable knowledge. As Chris so rightly points out the art of a commentator is to point out to viewers things that they cannot see on screen, and inform about behind the scenes activity. Now all they do is gabble on about what we are observing for ourselves, and in the case of someone like Heuwen on MotoGP BT Sport they are like some motor mouth in a public bar, and no idea, or interest of what is happening elsewhere in the race other than the leaders.
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Post by robmarsh on Apr 10, 2018 13:15:44 GMT
Dont forget Bill McLaren on rugby John Charles.
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Post by charleselan on Apr 10, 2018 13:37:54 GMT
Dont forget Bill McLaren on rugby John Charles. Rob, Yes of course a truly great commentator, sadly I have a pathological hatred of rugby which stems from my first year at secondary school. John Charles
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Post by Carl on Apr 10, 2018 14:54:59 GMT
James Whittam is so wonderfully cutting and quite agree Charles, it is the best, although I do miss Steve Parish Chris, I agree. Those two have been outstanding on the Isle of Man broadcasts.
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