Great Team Mates.......

[chrisb]

that is fascinating Lucio et al, it is so interesting reading others knowledge I really do enjoy it, thank you

with regards to Eddie, he was one of those drivers I never really 'got' - I remember him in F2 and with Osella and when he joined Renault I thought OK now we'll see - but we really didn't, as for signing for Ferrari I once read an article by Innes Ireland about him and Jimmy being offered Ferrari drives - again how true was that? but it shows essentially bad manners what he did to Ferrari and I think especially of Elio - whom I always considered underrated and always felt was a much better driver than Eddie would never have stooped to that level 

talking of team-mates when Eddie and Derek shared the Jag at Silverstone they basically messed up the driver change and with a very tough Scot managing the team it never happened again- perhaps that is what Eddie needed? although I don't recollect what happened to his Jag drive

[robmarsh]

Both Eddie Cheever's and Dereck Warwick's F1 careers were disappointing. They initially promised more and both had opportunities in race winning cars unlike drivers of their calibre in todays F1.

[Deleted]

Mar 18, 2018 4:16:06 GMT Carl said:

Lucio,

I always knew Cheever had an outsize ego, but not how.

It's a pity for any talented prospect to be poisoned at the family well. Stage mothers and sport fathers [gridiron or grid] do a lot of damage.

Cheers, Carl

Eddie seems, always seemed, genuinely a good guy and a distinguished gentleman; I have no doubt he is. If he could only drop this pretence about Villeneuve stealing ‘his’ seat and making a big deal (for self-publicity and enhanced credibility in the US media circuit, I suppose) of testing a Ferrari F1. De Angelis never did it, in his short life. What, for example, Derek Bell or Tino Brambilla should say then, when they actually raced Ferrari F1s?

The piece in the link below from the Motor Sport archive is typical of the basic misunderstanding or more likely play-acting in which he seems to indulge when relating that brief experience. Not to mention that each time the story is ever so slightly different, like a small offset from what he stated in the previous interview. It is all melodrama with him.

Quote: "It was the most stupid thing I ever did in motorsport," says Cheever today. "What harm would it have done me as a young kid to be racing Ferrari's F2 engine and doing a bunch of testing?"

Ah, so it wasn’t about F1 after all?

www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/july-2006/93/most-stupid-thing-i-ever-did

In mid-1977, when Cheever tested at Fiorano, Ferrari did not need F1 drivers, the plan was Lauda-Reutemann also for 1978. Besides, Cheever didn’t have any F1 experience to make claims on Lauda’s seat when it then became available. And he was 19! When that happened, Ferrari took his typical autonomous decision – from everybody, specialized Italian press in the first place – and went for Villeneuve, who had impressed on his F1 debut. For anybody to claim Villeneuve “took my seat” or “I tested the T2 before the ‘great’ Villeneuve” (he said that too along the years), it is plainly self-delusional.

PS: In my previous post I implied that De Angelis also tested for Ferrari in 1977 - it was actually in 1978. It doesn’t change the argument. Ferrari proposed to De Angelis to race in F2 with the Dino engine on a Chevron chassis. The De Angelis’ – father, Giulio, and son – were less than keen on the prospect as they thought it wasn’t reliable and competitive enough. And that was it. No melodrama like “I blew a Ferrari contract” or up in arms like “I read it on the Gazzetta dello Sport and went straight to talk to the Old Man”. Yeah, sure - you da man. Elio went on to build his career on his own terms.

[René]

Elio at Fiorano in the T3.

[Carl]

Lucio,

There's no doubt that the young Eddie Cheever was full of himself and still struggles to come to terms with having ruined his one best chance stupidly and arrogantly.

I suppose, like Charles Foster Kane, he'll mutter his one great regret on his deathbed. We all have regrets, but thankfully not of such magnitude.

Cheers, Carl

[Deleted]

Rosebud!

[chrisb]

in my humblest of opinions the most overrated film of all time was of course Citizen Kane, so with Eddie also overrating himself is there a link?

[Carl]

Mar 19, 2018 5:33:08 GMT chrisb said:

in my humblest of opinions the most overrated film of all time was of course Citizen Kane, so with Eddie also overrating himself is there a link?

I think it's an excellent film, and also overrated as the very best one because Orson Welles' overblown conceit came to be adopted by film critics.  He was a perfect storm of self-adoration and promotion.

[René]

Great team mates, Jody and Gilles. We already had them in this thread but I found this photo which I really love because I am sitting somewhere on the left in the grandstand, my first Grand Prix meeting!



This is me as a young boy on the same grandstand and a photo I took of Gilles in his T4.

[chrisb]

Rene, that is just so cool -

[Deleted]

Mar 18, 2018 17:47:25 GMT René said:

Looking at this photo taken from Autosprint. So many memories.

I have always considered Patrese the quicker driver, I still think he was – when Riccardo didn’t go to sleep, at least.

However, it is coming to me now that De Angelis – not Alboreto – should have been Ferrari driver in the ‘80s, after Lotus. Elio was the quintessential, old-fashioned, debonair Ferrari driver (Clay anybody?).

Legend has it that during that test, seen the lap times, Elio's father – Giulio - patted on the back Enzo with a joke in Roman dialect which allegedly wasn’t much appreciated by the Old Man, something like

“Visto? Mo’ te lo do io er campione del mondo!”

(“Look! Now it’s me who’s going to give you the world champion!”)

That allegedly put an end to the relationship between Elio and Maranello…

[chrisb]

not sure I agree about Patrese - he was quick - especially in 1978 at South Africa, but then his driving style upset a few people, Ronnie especially, however for me a big spark went out after Monza 78, when the kangaroo court condemned him and he was never the same F1 driver again, but when he drove the Lancia in WEC - wow was he quick, and once we got through that terrible barrier of shyness we saw a really good guy, but of the two I would have gone for Elio,, that smoothness and speed, in a Ferrari he would have been good and not forgetting Chapman picked him up - which suggests something? - For some reason and I was never quite sure why but Alboreto never really did it for me - but 3 great drivers all very different and Elio in a Ferrari, yea that would have been cool

[Deleted]

Among other documents, I have seen a photo online, which now I can't find unfortunately but hopefully I will, of Peterson and Patrese just after the podium at Anderstorp shaking hands without all the melodrama (and usual high moral ground) the British press and Mr Hunt portrayed at the time.

This is the 1978 Swedish GP, one of the very few races Italian TV did not show live at the time and thus I had never seen, if only to understand whether Patrese really deserved to be hanged, drawn and quartered as in fact eventually that year he was, mostly on the back of the words and actions of Mr Hunt.

Have a look, Chris:

I rest my case and won't comment any further.

[Deleted]

These recollections about De Angelis and Cheever one-off Ferrari tests, has made me draw a mental picture of Ferrari’s method in the second half of the ‘70s in relation to new talent, specifically local.

Until few years earlier, Ferrari was used to test new prospects, most of them were thrown in the mix and raced in GPs – Bell, Brambilla, De Adamich, Giunti, Regazzoni, not to mention the previous ones, the Rodriguez brothers, even Dan Gurney a decade earlier. Clay in fact was the last F2 driver to successfully graduate to the works team on the back of outstanding results, the others were mostly dropped - it was competitive.

After the “re-foundation” in the second half of 1973, Montezemolo (i.e. Fiat) in charge on track, they cancelled the sportscar programme for good to concentrate on F1 and testing or trials for upcoming drivers effectively ended.

In the second half of the decade there was a small renaissance of Italian drivers, the local press, particularly Autosprint, was vocal in their support and Ferrari – not yet at the lofty current ‘branding’ levels, but surely on their way – had somehow to acknowledge what was going on. Further, the Old Man was still very much in charge and there is no question he liked drivers, watch them going on about their business – he had been one of them after all. It wasn’t yet fully corporate.

It is in this picture that the tests of Cheever and De Angelis in 1977-78 should be seen. The F1 works team was effectively now out of reach, only established drivers were considered for the role or – for the very last time in the Scuderia’s history – an outstanding prospect which captured Enzo’s imagination – Gilles Villeneuve.

It seems Cheever and De Angelis were offered an F2 programme with the Dino engine thrown in, presumably for free. I am sure in the discussions, perhaps after having left Enzo’s office, promises, white lies and so on were whispered – ‘you know, you do good and opportunity for the F1 may well open’ etc. But I can’t see either of them being promised an F1 works seat, because there was none available in the first place, second, none of them had F1 experience and, third, both were under 20 years old.

Cheever was already fairly established in F2, so it is conceivable there could have been talk of a prospective F1 race – he claims a one-off race at Imola – but I don’t believe him when he says they promised him the works seat. No way. In fact, reading all the different versions he has said over the years, I believe and posit that he never got an offer for anything after that test. The fact he went there with his lawyer has never been denied, on the contrary Autosprint mentioned that it did not go down well with the Old Man and his hierarchy. Plus, he was a contracted BMW driver that year, which surely would have been at odds with a Ferrari one. I think he had nothing in his pocket from Ferrari after that test, which would tally with all the baloneys, smoke screens and ill-concealed bitterness he has been telling ever since.

At the time of the test, De Angelis had just won the Italian F3 championship, and could probably do with an F2 programme. But Elio wasn’t alone, he had his father Giulio, self-made building contractor millionaire, who could likely see through all Ferrari’s (Enzo and co.) bullshit. They had the wherewithal to go about their business without anybody’s help, and in fact they pretty much bought the Shadow seat the following year, while Cheever had to settle for Osella in F2, short of any opportunity anywhere else. Nobody can claim Osella is where he really wanted to be in 1979, it’s just not believable - for example I recall him saying on Italian TV (to Gianni Mina’) in 1978 that he wanted to go in F1, asap.

Patrese was also part of the picture, but more on the margins initially, as his circumstances were different, he was already in F1 and an F2 programme with a Ferrari engine couldn’t be sold to him. He couldn’t test and be enticed that way because he was under contract at Shadow and then at Arrows. What brought him in the middle of the picture – and perhaps close to a works seat – was his performances on the FA1 in 1978 with, in parallel, the struggles Villeneuve had in his first full Ferrari season. Ferrari kept him waiting, as a result he declined the Brabham seat for 1979, offered to him before Piquet, lost the train he should have taken and when that train came back in 1982, the circumstances were completely different and alas too late. Ferrari famously said that when they had to decide whether to take Patrese, it was the opinion of his ‘collaborators’ that weighted against, not his. I mean, whenever Enzo Ferrari did let his associates to take a key decision on drivers’ line up? Tell another joke, Enzo.

The smarter of all in hindsight, of course, was De Angelis. He understood quite quickly how things worked at Maranello, knew the value of his own skill, knew where he wanted to be and how to get there. Shame Colin couldn’t give him another pacesetter.

It seems Ferrari, for a while in the second half of the ‘70s, entertained the idea of what today would be called a “driver’s academy”, due to probably several connected factors: an available F2 engine, watching talent closer, local media pressure. Nothing came out of it: the drivers earmarked did not race for him in any capacity, the last Italian driver he hired – Alboreto - did so entirely on his own merit.

A bit of detour on the teammates subject, but not to worry - I’m done!

[René]

Great team mates in this 1955 Mercedes-Benz promotion photo.

Daimler-Benz AG drivers Stirling Moss, Juan Manuel Fangio and Karl Kling sitting beside a Mercedes-Benz 300SL "Gullwing".
In the background it is visible Mercedes' transporter called "The Blue Wonder", carrying a .


© Daimler AG