Great Team Mates.......

[Deleted]

What about Boillot and Goux at Peugeot in 1911-1914? Caracciola and von Brauchitsch, Alberto Ascari and Gigi Villoresi?

[charleselan]

Dec 21, 2017 7:44:56 GMT @valentin1936 said:

What about Boillot and Goux at Peugeot in 1911-1914? Caracciola and von Brauchitsch, Alberto Ascari and Gigi Villoresi?

Valentin, 

Do you have a photo of Boillot & Goux together, that would be fantastic.

[chrisb]

i did like the Graham and Jackie partnership, in his autobiography Jackie pays a wonderful tribute to Graham, how fair and supportive he was, of course helping save his life at Spa helped, but Graham could have been pretty obstructive and unhelpful to what was a real talent but didn't, says a great deal,

Prost and Rosberg?

I've been trying to think of anyone on similar levels in the past 10 years who would qualify for this thread, would Jenson and Lewis?

[Deleted]

Dec 21, 2017 17:10:54 GMT charleselan said:

Dec 21, 2017 7:44:56 GMT @valentin1936 said:

What about Boillot and Goux at Peugeot in 1911-1914? Caracciola and von Brauchitsch, Alberto Ascari and Gigi Villoresi?

Valentin, 

Do you have a photo of Boillot & Goux together, that would be fantastic.

Boillot, Goux and the Peugeot brothers, Lyon 1914

imgur.com/a/rJbIK

[Deleted]

Not teammates, but very much mates.

This is taken at the Pista d'Oro, Rome. I've been in that exact place many times, eating exactly the same ice cream...



Then, in F1:

[Deleted]

Karting



Gp Roma F2, Vallelunga, 1977

[Deleted]

Found a better one. That was at Estoril, Portugal, 1974. World championship. Patrese won, Cheever second (who raced for the Italian national team).

[Deleted]

Reading a recent interview of Eddie Cheever on Autosprint, on occasion of the 40th anniversary of his F1 debut.
He got a call from Syd Taylor to race the Theodore designed by Ron Tauranac, with the BRM P207 possibly the most outdated F1 ever raced. Eddie had nothing on his hands and accepted because he had raced and won in F2 on Ralts, but...

Argentinian GP:

After the initial part of the circuit there is a long curve where you make the lap time. The car roadholding is dire, but I throw myself in at full speed: either I make it or break it. While I'm in the middle of it, an unidentified object overtakes me like I was standing still. It's a Lotus. Inside there is my friend Peterson. When briefly beside me, Ronnie waves 'bye-bye' with his hand. And then I understand. I'm going nowhere.

[Deleted]

Teammates

1977 - 2017: BMW Junior Team

Jochen Neerpasch (team director), Eddie Cheever, Marc Surer. Manfred Winkelhock is sadly missing.

[Deleted]

[Carl]

Mar 17, 2018 16:55:21 GMT @lucio said:

Reading a recent interview of Eddie Cheever on Autosprint, on occasion of the 40th anniversary of his F1 debut.
He got a call from Syd Taylor to race the Theodore designed by Ron Tauranac, with the BRM P207 possibly the most outdated F1 ever raced. Eddie had nothing on his hands and accepted because he had raced and won in F2 on Ralts, but...

Argentinian GP:

After the initial part of the circuit there is a long curve where you make the lap time. The car roadholding is dire, but I throw myself in at full speed: either I make it or break it. While I'm in the middle of it, an unidentified object overtakes me like I was standing still. It's a Lotus. Inside there is my friend Peterson. When briefly beside me, Ronnie waves 'bye-bye' with his hand. And then I understand. I'm going nowhere.

I was awed by the talent of Eddie Cheever at a young age. Always quick, sometimes mentally too quick.  Famously hotheaded, young Cheever declined a plum drive for Ferrari when they wanted him to drive F2 and he wanted to drive F1, offending Enzo Ferrari in person.  He must have thought he was on the top of the world.  Che idiota!

Years later and more mature, he did very well in CART, was rookie of the year in his first Indy 500 and won eventually as an owner/driver during Tony George's clumsy attempt at domination.

Nowadays, Cheever is an excellent race analyst for ABC IndyCar broadcasts.  Still mentally quick but having better judgment. 

[Deleted]

Cheever with teammate Ingo Hoffman in F2, 1977-78, Project Four. The guy on the left is the boss...

[Deleted]

Mar 17, 2018 21:31:07 GMT Carl said:

I was awed by the talent of Eddie Cheever at a young age. Always quick, sometimes mentally too quick.  Famously hotheaded, young Cheever declined a plum drive for Ferrari when they wanted him to drive F2 and he wanted to drive F1, offending Enzo Ferrari in person.  He must have thought he was on the top of the world.  Che idiota!

Years later and more mature, he did very well in CART, was rookie of the year in his first Indy 500 and won eventually as an owner/driver during Tony George's clumsy attempt at domination.

Nowadays, Cheever is an excellent race analyst for ABC IndyCar broadcasts.  Still mentally quick but having better judgment. 

Carl, I am going to tell straight what I think, IMHO, based on what I have learned and known along the years. Cheever always came across as a personable, urbane and fluent individual, and I know he is an esteemed race analyst for ABC. It doesn't surprise me.

One thing that struck me about Cheever quite early on was an interview on Autosprint in 1977, I think, where he stated he was going to become the youngest F1 world champion - at that time the record was held by Fittipaldi at 25 yrs old. Even to a young, inexperienced (and as yet without trace of cynicism) boy like myself at the time, that sounded quite a bit strident. It seems he may have had a somewhat 'pushy' father, nonetheless I thought on occasion he had a big mouth, came across as a self-publicist, opposite to the measure showed by young colleagues like Giacomelli, De Angelis or Patrese (but not Gabbiani, on the other hand, for example). He was a good prospect and showed early promise, no doubt, some good wins in F2, but never really materialized or was backed up by consistent results. When he was thinking - and, worst, saying - he was going to walk it in F1, even well before to put a single foot in it, his climb on the ladder was effectively already stalling. He raced four years in F2 - not a good omen - a couple of which with Ron Dennis, whom later never attempted to sign him in F1.

When finally in F1, he initially had indeed some poor machiney, and perhaps arguably never had a great car all along - bar a Renault - but in my view he never went to the next level, never showed the promise and excitment that other drivers did with whatever car they had been given - the Watsons, the Patreses, the Pironis, even the Jariers of this world. He revealed himself to be an average, mid-table, safe and competent pair of hands, which is never going to cut it at the sharp end of F1. He then did very well in sportscars, like many of about the same level used to - Mass, Pirro, Stommelen etc.

I haven't followed in detail his eventual career in America, but it appears in CART he was really never a threat, I recall Ganassi making some less than complimentary remarks about his driving, during the Zanardi years. He then moved to IRL, won few races, never more than one a year, but the field in IRL was distinctly mediocre, the real competition being on the other side, in CART. He won Indy once, as many as Buddy Lazier or Mario Andretti (one can choose to whom he would come closest). That was the top of his racing career.

On the issue of his aleged Ferrari contract offer in 1977, over the years he has told several versions of the facts, like he had an F1 drive contract with Ferrari in his pocket but then either he turned it down, or missed out because he injured himself racing touring cars at Vallelunga (with the BMW Junior Team, presumably, I don't recall) and along the years has shown some degree of bitterness towards Ferrari in his interviews (not on Italian media, crucially, to the best of my knowledge) for not giving him the drive and allegedly preferring Villeneuve to him. He tested the T2 in mid 1977, like De Angelis did, and somewhat along the years he has claimed some sense of entitlement to the Ferrari F1 seat, when I thought he should have showed what he had on track, instead of making what looked all along unsubstantiated claims, at times as an excuse for his eventual lack of results. The truth is that in the second half of the '70s Ferrari used to offer options to Italian (or Italian-based like Cheever) promising drivers, without however any legal committment from Ferrari's side. Patrese, De Angelis, Brancatelli and, it would appear, Cheever too, all went through that, but the first three never made unduly noises about it and went on with their own careers without the need to curse Ferrari at the first opportunity. Autosprint reported at the time - famously and never refuted - that when he was summoned to discuss with Ferrari (Enzo), he went there with a lawyer. I can easily imagine what Enzo would have made of a 19-year old nobody going to discuss terms with him, bringing a lawyer along...

Usual disclaimers apply.

[Carl]

Lucio,

I always knew Cheever had an outsize ego, but not how.

It's a pity for any talented prospect to be poisoned at the family well. Stage mothers and sport fathers [gridiron or grid] do a lot of damage.

Cheers, Carl

[Carl]

Mar 17, 2018 23:23:28 GMT @lucio said:

Cheever with teammate Ingo Hoffman in F2, 1977-78, Project Four. The guy on the left is the boss...

It looks as if Ron and Eddie are assessing each other's arrogance while poor Hoffman wants a way out.

There is often telepathy among egotists.