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Post by René on Dec 13, 2017 23:49:56 GMT
Opinions regarding Piquet may be divided on the forum but what a car!  |
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Post by charleselan on Dec 14, 2017 12:48:07 GMT
Opinions regarding Piquet may be divided on the forum but what a car! No mistaking a Gordon Murray design is there, and many peoples favourite Grand prix car apparently. I was fortunate enough to see both versions run in 1983; the early version as shown by René above, at Silverstone on a blistering hot weekend and then the later one at Brands Hatch in October of that year. As an aside I watched the end of the Autosport awards on a new FreeSat channel in the UK hosted by motorsport.com (the one that is buying up everything motor sport related). Nelson was the subject of the "lifetime award" and was greeted warmly by all those present, even Patrick Head was applauding vigorously. Nelson was hugely emotional and was close to breaking up at the beginning, it obviously meant a great deal to him. Gordon Murray was also on the stage with him and was effusive in his praise of him as a man and driver, forget about the image of him as a lazy driver as Murray attributed much of the success of his Brabham's down to Piquet's hard work and mechanical understanding. |
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Post by charleselan on Dec 14, 2017 19:37:02 GMT
Here is a shot I took during the 1983 European GP at Brands Hatch of Nelson Piquet in the Brabham BT52B BMW. This is a glorious place to take photos as the car bottoms out at the base of Paddock Hill, those cars were mighty impressive that year and again in 1985.  |
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Post by chrisb on Dec 14, 2017 22:11:43 GMT
JC, I was at both these meetings and remember with frustration the accident Senna caused in the 1985 GP and how Piquet had to retire as a result of this, when you look at the smooth lines and sleekness of this car - you really can understand the fascination for historic racing.
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Post by René on Dec 14, 2017 22:57:31 GMT
JC, fantastic photo. You captured the Brabham at a beautiful angle!
Interesting to read how Nelson was greeted so warmly by many people who worked with him. This shows nothing is ever black and white and the impressions we have of people we don't actually know are often based on first impressions or superficial knowledge. Maybe time for a revaluation of Mr. Piquet...
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Post by charleselan on Dec 14, 2017 23:31:38 GMT
JC, fantastic photo. You captured the Brabham at a beautiful angle! Interesting to read how Nelson was greeted so warmly by many people who worked with him. This shows nothing is ever black and white and the impressions we have of people we don't actually know are often based on first impressions or superficial knowledge. Maybe time for a revaluation of Mr. Piquet... René, Many thanks for the compliment. That is one of the best angles when taking an action shot, sort of front three quarters, however one has to get the right combination of depth of field and shutter speed.....that is the trick. Nelson seemed almost overwhelmed by the occasion and the accolade which was surprising, he really was moved by it all. Gordon Murray obviously has great affection for him, and they remain good friends. What surprised me most was Patrick Head's enthusiastic applause, as I thought they were not that close, Head being a Mansell man. I am happy in my support of Piquet; I liked him a lot. JC |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 19:19:27 GMT
The BT52 is the last car I really liked. I recall when it was presented Autosprint put on the cover a picture taken from above, where the arrow shape could be clearly seen.
What I really liked about Murray's cars was you could see the same pencil had designed them, there was an underlying theme and I loved that intellectual clarity.
The same could be said about Forghieri's cars, but in honesty I appreciated that much later; at the time I was very Anglophile as far as race car design was concerned and often dismissed him for allegedly not getting ground effect - I was wrong.
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Post by René on Dec 16, 2017 23:07:33 GMT
Couldn't agree more Lucio. There was always a touch of artistry in Murray's designs with a clear signature. Indeed something that could also be said about Forgieri's cars. He followed his own concepts. And as for getting ground effect, I always thought he did an amazing job with the T4 given the fact he had to 'work around' the boxer engine. A brilliant engine that worked so well for many years and now suddenly was an obstruction in a new design philosophy called ground effect. It could never be the best wing car with that engine but he made it work anyway.  © Scuderia Ferrari SpA |
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Post by robmarsh on Dec 17, 2017 6:40:28 GMT
Some friends of my folks received a Christmas card from Gordon Murray for Christmas 1986 or 87. It was the time he left to join McLaren. It showed a series of cartoons drawn by Jim Bamber, I think. There were six or 8 pics in all. The first showed a Brabham driven by Piquet roaring into the pits, then the mechanics converging on it and changing things and then it roared out the pits as a McLaren driven by Prost.
Piquet had an incredible work rate when testing-totally focussed and he would stay in the car all day-even to the extent of forgoing pee breaks such was his desire to finish the program.
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Post by robmarsh on Dec 17, 2017 6:45:00 GMT
Rene, beautiful pic of the Ferrari. I was thinking the other day, that the boxer motor must have been more incredible than one gives it credit for. Having just finished Adrian's Newey's book and having a slightly better understanding of airflow around an F1 car, that boxer must have been starved for clean air, compared to the Cosworth and other vee motors, given that the intake trumpets were so close to the ground and in the wake of the turbulent air from the front wheels.
Charles for some reason your photos don't come up on my screen. Just a tiny little square.
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Post by Jamie on Dec 17, 2017 7:57:48 GMT
I remember in the previous Motorsport / Gordon Murray podcast a few years back (I think), that Gordon said Piquet was his favourite driver to work with and that he was a real hard worker. Piquet was never my favourite but there's no doubt the guy had great skill and, it seems, the work ethic to make the most of his talent.
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Post by René on Dec 17, 2017 11:33:17 GMT
Rene, beautiful pic of the Ferrari. I was thinking the other day, that the boxer motor must have been more incredible than one gives it credit for. Having just finished Adrian's Newey's book and having a slightly better understanding of airflow around an F1 car, that boxer must have been starved for clean air, compared to the Cosworth and other vee motors, given that the intake trumpets were so close to the ground and in the wake of the turbulent air from the front wheels. Rob, that flat 12 engine was in no way ideal for a wing car. You wanted the engine to be as narrow as possible for optimal air flow so the DFV was way better suited. The flat and wide engine with its low center of gravity was perfect for the mid seventies style cars but not anymore. Forghieri didn't get everything right at once though. It is well recorded (and Jody Scheckter told about it in his latest Motor Sport podcast a few month ago) that the drivers (Jody and Gilles) really had to push Forghieri and Enzo to change the exhaust layout for a better airflow. Forghieri was not convinced at first but made the change before the Italian Grand Prix and it turned out to be a significant improvement. |
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Post by charleselan on Dec 17, 2017 11:36:52 GMT
Rene, beautiful pic of the Ferrari. I was thinking the other day, that the boxer motor must have been more incredible than one gives it credit for. Having just finished Adrian's Newey's book and having a slightly better understanding of airflow around an F1 car, that boxer must have been starved for clean air, compared to the Cosworth and other vee motors, given that the intake trumpets were so close to the ground and in the wake of the turbulent air from the front wheels. Charles for some reason your photos don't come up on my screen. Just a tiny little square. Rob, Are you having problems viewing all my posted pictures? I have posted the direct link to the B&W Nelson Piquet photo below, does that work for you? img.frl/vwdxc |
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Post by charleselan on Dec 17, 2017 13:28:08 GMT
During the Autosport presentation of the award of Lifetime Achievement an example of Nelson's thinking driver approach was given; I think none other than Herbie Blash. During the Formula Three race at Paul Ricard, Nelson apparently undid the crutch straps of his harness so that he could slide down a little into the cockpit on the long straight which gave him an extra 7mph. Not really health and safety but clever none the less.
Gordon Murray also said that Nelson would often accompany him to the wind tunnel they used in Southhampton and work with him on things with the car, often this would result in things that would go onto the following years car.
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Post by robmarsh on Dec 18, 2017 6:38:06 GMT
Hi Charles
I have solved the problem. My computer is so out of date that it doesn't have the necessary features. I think the microsoft office product I have is about nine years old. I get you pics fine on my phone so will try my tablet as well. I guess I will finally have to start using the laptop I brought over a year ago!
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