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Post by René on Nov 10, 2020 17:47:04 GMT
Tres Bien Rene. The sad thing to me though is that all those kids were already involved with karting. Did they have a childhood at all? Oh yes Rob, you can really wonder if they had. I came across this picture on another site and thought it was funny but your thought is legit. It's a development we've seen in many high profile sports for years, even decades now as Carl pointed out re. Tiger Woods and it seems to continue further. Max was 16 when he came in F1 which is ridiculous of course. And these guys are the lucky ones, they made it to F1. But there are hundreds, maybe thousands of young boys and girls who were also this committed with parents spending every penny they have and suddenly the dream stops because you're not good enough. How much fun is that? And at what costs? |
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Post by chrisb on Nov 11, 2020 9:42:06 GMT
the emotional costs for someone dedicated to achieve but fail to do so for whatever reasons are enormous, suicides occur, in football a number of ex-players have set up a scheme to help the youngsters deal with not progressing to higher echelons of success and getting their lives on track, but for motor racing the one thing that has prevented so many and this is why the likes of Hamilton deserve their respect for getting where they are is so just is money, more so in the past few years than say in the 50's and 60's when the likes of Bob Anderson or Peter Revson tied the car to the converted VW and off they went, but now, without funds and maybe this is more like the past 40 years it is so so difficult
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Post by robmarsh on Nov 11, 2020 10:03:59 GMT
the emotional costs for someone dedicated to achieve but fail to do so for whatever reasons are enormous, suicides occur, in football a number of ex-players have set up a scheme to help the youngsters deal with not progressing to higher echelons of success and getting their lives on track, but for motor racing the one thing that has prevented so many and this is why the likes of Hamilton deserve their respect for getting where they are is so just is money, more so in the past few years than say in the 50's and 60's when the likes of Bob Anderson or Peter Revson tied the car to the converted VW and off they went, but now, without funds and maybe this is more like the past 40 years it is so so difficult Motorsport at the top echelons has always been for the well heeled, like yachting, but as you say it has got worse and worse. Back in the day when most of us got interested in motor sport there was usually a thriving grassroots club scene where you "run what you brung" and provided it passed scrutineering, you could race it and have fun. I had a friend from school that built his own sports car in his early 20s and raced it in the club scene in Zimbabwe. He was very happy, even towards the back of the field. I think the grassroots level has dried up mostly and money rules. Even in the mid 80s when I was karting in Zimbabwe with a locally made kart, the wealthier drivers, who mostly owned their own engineering businesses, were importing Zip frames and Japanese engines and tyres. They also had apprentices to fettle the cars as part of their training and it was all run through the books so they got an effective 60% deduction on their costs. Contrast that with an accountant, who was buying into a partnership, didn't have a clue really about mechanical things, in fact it was only when something broke that I knew it was there in the first place, paid for his expenses after tax, and driving ability didn't come into it. I tried to run on USD150 a month and only had one set of tyres a season. When I moved to South Africa I saw how much more expensive karting had become, carbon fibre floor tray etc, that I decided it just wasn't worth it any more. I agree Chris that LH and his father Anthony deserve respect for achieving what they have done, it must have been incredibly difficult and then trying to fit into the Piranha Club without previous experience to boot. My concern for the kids though is that in many cases the parents force them into it and the parents try to live vicariously through their children, that is sad. I never thought about the mental anguish of not making it though. Must be terrible and with no other skills to fall back on. |
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Post by chrisb on Nov 12, 2020 10:40:21 GMT
great piece Rob, a real article that Bill Boddy would be proud of, and very true, my problem is I feel so detached from what is going on in motorsport, 'back in the day' you had Autosport that kept you up to date with everything that went on, I look at a copy from 1962 - it remarks on the second success of the V8 - it's Pit and Paddock so full of happenings and small reports like the La Fauchelle Hill-climb alongside the brief report of the Indy 500, this was just the second page - It goes on and gives you an idea as to who or what was doing which - so you started reading that a young Scot called a.n.other or John Young Stewart was starting to win an awful lot of races so you knew to keep an eye out for him, now I no longer subscribe to Autosport and don't have sxy I have no idea who is in F2 let alone F3 and the grassroots I did used to go to Croft to see local races occasionally but had no idea who was who. That maybe an age thing and I am not so willing [if I could at the moment] to go to a freezing Brands Hatch or a baking Oulton Park to see a local race but it just feels distant and perhaps not as personal as it once did? not sure
yea, totally Rob, the stories of good racers not being outdriven by better drivers but by better funded outfits are legendary - which is why when someone like Stirling or Jimmy leap into a car that isn't the best and do well we know how good they are
Rob, one just has to go to a local Sunday morning football match to hear and see the anger and anguish of certain parents lash upon their offsprings when they don't achieve what the parents want, having worked in the field of mental health it is rife with children trying to live with the disappointment of their parents or live up to their parents expectations and spend most of the time trying to educate the parents to little avail
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Post by robmarsh on Nov 12, 2020 12:40:25 GMT
Thanks Chris and a great response. When we finally get to meet up I think we are going to have a lot to talk about. Mental health interests me immensely as I have seen the effects of PTSD are friends of mine who were in the military.
I feel great anger towards politicians in general because of the decisions they make that lead to war and young 18 year olds, who don't have the life experience to know better, being whipped into a patriotic frenzy, joining the military and then being killed or injured and those that survive are then cast aside by governments on their return. In many cases wars are fought for the benefit of a few egotistical b***ards who want to preserve their way of life, or get richer, all with little thought to others and the impact on them.
Yesterday's very moving tribute to the fallen as aired on BBC, brought this home to me once again in a big way. There is no room for politics and political beliefs during a battle. That is why I commemorate these services and days. It is for those young men and women that were thrust into something not of their doing and who then made the ultimate sacrifice, or suffered debilitating wounds, physical or mental. I don't mark the day for the victors or for the political systems they represent, but for the victims who died because of them. I mourn them all.
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Post by René on Nov 12, 2020 17:18:47 GMT
Great posts guys, a really good read. Thanks!
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Post by chrisb on Nov 13, 2020 8:16:48 GMT
One of my favourite films of all times and really needs to be shown to any egotistical war mongers is of course the original 'All quiet on the Western Front' a truly remarkable film, especially as it is something like 90 years old but still so poignant and from the German perspective as well,
I too commemorate all those that have fallen, irrespective of ancestry or religion - be they in battle or non combatants as their lives were ultimately sacrificed for someone else's problems such as ego, as John said - Give peace a chance- we truly deserve it
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Post by Carl on Nov 13, 2020 17:09:27 GMT
One of my favourite films of all times and really needs to be shown to any egotistical war mongers is of course the original 'All quiet on the Western Front' a truly remarkable film, especially as it is something like 90 years old but still so poignant and from the German perspective as well, I too commemorate all those that have fallen, irrespective of ancestry or religion - be they in battle or non combatants as their lives were ultimately sacrificed for someone else's problems such as ego, as John said - Give peace a chance- we truly deserve it The final scene as the young man gently reaches for a beautiful representation of peace is heartrending. Other great films with a sane perspective on the insanity of war are Jean Renoir's "The Grand Illusion" and Stanley Kubrick's "Paths of Glory" |
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Post by chrisb on Nov 14, 2020 11:03:25 GMT
oh so much Carl, still so emotional, and the The Grand Illusion is brilliant and so sad, Paths of Glory showed us how the senior Generals thought and just felt so accurate as to what actually happened, I would add another film, perhaps John Gilbert's best film a non-talkie called The Big Parade, and as you say - puts life and war into perspective
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