Emilia-Romagna Grand Prix - Imola

[René]

Interesting point there, Mikael. Yes it has gone up and down scalewise. I understand cars are now larger than say cars from the 80's because of safety reasons. But it's mainly the hybrid layout that creates these long vehicles if I understand correctly. They are out of proportion. The visuals I have seen so far of the 2022 cars it seems they are shorter but maybe that's a wrong impression.

[robmarsh]

A lot of comments from the F1 fraternity about Mercedes breaking Ferrari's record of constructors championship and how records are made to be broken. I for one hope that this record of seven consecutive constructors' championships and seven or eight drivers' championships are never broken. I couldn't stand the tedium brought about by such overwhelming dominance that would surely occur for this to happen. Even as an avid Ferrari supporter I was hoping someone else would win by 2004.

[charleselan]

Talking of F1 car sizes, it can be interesting to compare the wheelbase dimensions of the vehicles over time. Checking a few out today it is clear that as Mikael points out the Pre-W.War 2 Mercedes and Auto Unions were quite large but when one looks at the wheelbase dimensions they were not excessively so. The largest of the Mercedes Benz cars was the W125 at 2794mm (110 imperial inches); interestingly the little W165 designed specifically for the Tripoli GP was a mere 2451mm (91.5 inches).

Then take the iconic 1950's racer the Maserati 250F and that measures up to a tiny 2280mm (89.8 inches), surprising as this was a front engined car and one would have thought it longer than the following mid engined cars especially the jewel like 1.5 litre F1 cars from 1961 to 1965. Jack Brabham's 1959 championship winning Cooper Climax T51 had a wheelbase of 2311mm (91 inches) and the original Lotus 25 from 1962 had the same wheelbase measurement.

In 1967 the Lotus 49 came in at 2463mm ( 97 inches) which was getting nearer the Mercedes Benz cars of the 1930's. In 1970 the Lotus 72 that Jochen Rindt drove had a wheelbase of 2530mm (100 inches) which was the same as the 1972 McLaren M19, however the 1970 Matra MS120 was a bit shorter with 2478mm (96 inches).

I do know that in 1975/6 McLaren had a variable wheelbase length by means of fitting a spacer between the transaxle and engine, however when it first appeared it had a wheelbase of 2565mm (101 inches) but increased over time to 2641mm (104 inches) putting it on a par with many of the 1930's cars. Also of note was the fact that in 1973 the M23 was the widest F1 car on the grid with the widest rear track measurement.

Just to add here the Tyrrell 006 was always regarded as a difficult car to drive as it had a short wheelbase, when compared to the McLaren M23 and Lotus 72 it certainly did as it had a WB of 2386mm (93.9 inches), but still quite a bit longer than many from previous years.

A little anecdote to close with. Back in the 1960's at club and national level slot car racers always looking for an advantage in performance much the same as the full sized crowd, so to make the fastest and best handling Grand Prix class cars the guys would look for the longest wheelbase race car. For many that meant racing 1930's MB's & Auto Unions which always cleaned up, until some bright sparks managed to get the old open wheeled Brooklands monsters allowed into the class, Napier Railton's etc.

[chrisb]

I am trying to remember the rules in 1976 just how wide an F1 car could be, I do seem to remember McLaren having a sense of humour and put a sticker on the rear aerofoil after the Spanish GP when their cars were too wide and subsequently disqualified /re-instated, something like ' beware wide load' which was quite funny I thought

What would be useful for amateurs such as I would be a visual comparison, don't know if there is any available?

[René]

Nov 4, 2020 16:45:42 GMT chrisb said:

I am trying to remember the rules in 1976 just how wide an F1 car could be, I do seem to remember McLaren having a sense of humour and put a sticker on the rear aerofoil after the Spanish GP when their cars were too wide and subsequently disqualified /re-instated, something like ' beware wide load' which was quite funny I thought

What would be useful for amateurs such as I would be a visual comparison, don't know if there is any available?

Yes Chris, they did have a sense of humour!

[chrisb]

bless you Rene, it still amuses

[Carl]

Nov 5, 2020 22:02:01 GMT chrisb said:

bless you Rene, it still amuses

As I recall, Ferrari knew in advance that the McLaren wing was a few millimeters too wide, but waited until their complaint would take the most points from their bitter rival. 

Wider still in those days were the bell-bottoms

[chrisb]

in a strange coincidence MS have published an article on size, saying today's Merc measures roughly 5000mm long and 2000 wide which when compared to:

1960 Cooper - 3500 long 1372 w
Lotus 72 4191 Long 1881 w
FW07 4490 long 2130 W
2010 Fizzy dribbles 4960 L 1840 w

which surprises me, they just look so much longer than 10 years ago- but what do I know 

[René]

Nov 6, 2020 15:36:33 GMT chrisb said:

in a strange coincidence MS have published an article on size, saying today's Merc measures roughly 5000mm long and 2000 wide which when compared to:

1960 Cooper - 3500 long 1372 w
Lotus 72 4191 Long 1881 w
FW07 4490 long 2130 W
2010 Fizzy dribbles 4960 L 1840 w

which surprises me, they just look so much longer than 10 years ago- but what do I know 

Chris, we've seen more of these coincidences before which is fine. But they should read our posts better! The Mercedes is 5700mm as mentioned in one of my previous posts, not 5000mm. They really are that much longer than 10 years ago. Your memory is still clear.

[Carl]

Nov 7, 2020 17:53:21 GMT René said:

Nov 6, 2020 15:36:33 GMT chrisb said:

in a strange coincidence MS have published an article on size, saying today's Merc measures roughly 5000mm long and 2000 wide which when compared to:

1960 Cooper - 3500 long 1372 w
Lotus 72 4191 Long 1881 w
FW07 4490 long 2130 W
2010 Fizzy dribbles 4960 L 1840 w

which surprises me, they just look so much longer than 10 years ago- but what do I know 

Chris, we've seen more of these coincidences before which is fine. But they should read our posts better! The Mercedes is 5700mm as mentioned in one of my previous posts, not 5000mm. They really are that much longer than 10 years ago. Your memory is still clear.

Sad to see Doug Nye in the background, spinning erratically in his electric wheelchair like Doctor Strangelove while defying staff entreaties to keep out of frame, although with the good sense, unlike Peter Windsor, not to wear blue shoes with black pants! 

[chrisb]

thanks Rene, although like my hearing my memory remains selective!

blue shoes -black pants, oh dear, that will never do

[René]

Just for a laugh...

[robmarsh]

Tres Bien Rene. The sad thing to me though is that all those kids were already involved with karting. Did they have a childhood at all?

[chrisb]

brilliant Rene,

yup Rob - I wonder if that will influence the above to retire early = aside from Kimi that is

[Carl]

Nov 10, 2020 14:37:43 GMT robmarsh said:

Tres Bien Rene. The sad thing to me though is that all those kids were already involved with karting. Did they have a childhood at all?

My thoughts exactly, Rob.  Tiger Woods was made into a phenomenal golfer, but at great cost to happiness.