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Post by René on Oct 31, 2020 15:07:22 GMT
That is interesting about Nico speaking Dutch and Verstappen German, although I seem to recall that you René also understand German. Kimi and Gio have apparently been signed for Alfa again in 2021, Kimi seems happy about that, maybe he is aiming to do a Fangio  . JC, the Verstappens are (like me) from the most southern part of the country which is a narrow stretch of land surrounded by Germany and Belgium. Most people in this part of the country grow up bilingual because there is always a border nearby. We used to watch a lot of German TV when I was a kid so you learn it from a young age. And I have family in the French speaking part of Belgium. We also speak a dialect in the south which is in fact also a language. People from the north cannot understand it! Nico is from Emmerich, a bit more to the north but placed practically on the border. He speaks Dutch very well. Even Kimi speaks a few words Dutch as he also did his karting in Holland with Peter de Bruijn karting. He lived a few years in the Netherlands. And Sebastian always has a few funny quotes or words in Ducth when interviewed by Dutch tv because he used to go to the Dutch coast with his parents for summer holiday! I am actually quite sure Mikael is also multi lingual with Danish, German, of course Japanese and probably a bit of Swedish. When you live in a small country with a strange language  it's almost necessary to speak at least one other language. |
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Post by René on Oct 31, 2020 15:11:51 GMT
What a joy and what a sight to see the cars go round at Imola again. Please keep this track on the calendar!
1-2-3 as expected but good job by Bottas and a spectacular 4th for Pierre Gasly! Great, great job! Also Danny was on form today. A bit disappointed with Charles' 7th place but he did all he could. The car was difficult to drive as he said on the radio. But again a massive gap to Seb, almost 8 tenth! Weird.
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Post by charleselan on Oct 31, 2020 16:20:42 GMT
That is interesting about Nico speaking Dutch and Verstappen German, although I seem to recall that you René also understand German. Kimi and Gio have apparently been signed for Alfa again in 2021, Kimi seems happy about that, maybe he is aiming to do a Fangio . JC, the Verstappens are (like me) from the most southern part of the country which is a narrow stretch of land surrounded by Germany and Belgium. Most people in this part of the country grow up bilingual because there is always a border nearby. We used to watch a lot of German TV when I was a kid so you learn it from a young age. And I have family in the French speaking part of Belgium. We also speak a dialect in the south which is in fact also a language. People from the north cannot understand it! Nico is from Emmerich, a bit more to the north but placed practically on the border. He speaks Dutch very well. Even Kimi speaks a few words Dutch as he also did his karting in Holland with Peter de Bruijn karting. He lived a few years in the Netherlands. And Sebastian always has a few funny quotes or words in Ducth when interviewed by Dutch tv because he used to go to the Dutch coast with his parents for summer holiday! I am actually quite sure Mikael is also multi lingual with Danish, German, of course Japanese and probably a bit of Swedish. When you live in a small country with a strange language it's almost necessary to speak at least one other language. René, I believe that Mikael has a very good understanding of Swedish as there are many similarities with his own native tongue. The UK is one of the countries where the majority of the population have little understanding of any language other than English, which is to their shame. When I was a kid back in the 1960's foreign languages were seldom taught in secondary schools other than Latin in the higher attaining educational establishments. I was one of those unfortunates who fell through that gap and never had a chance to learn another language, unbelievably they opened a language lab' the year i left the school I was at. Very interesting details about your own geography, it sounds as if your regional language differences with other parts of The Nederlands is somewhat similar to what we find in France with Bretagne for instance being a very different language to French; in fact has been said that it has more in common with Welsh. JC |
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Post by charleselan on Oct 31, 2020 16:34:49 GMT
Agree whole heartedly with René, Imola has to return to the calendar permanently. The drivers are raving about it, George Russell was rapturing lyrical about it over the team radio. It is a beautiful location and with the autumnal colours in the trees it is even more so. Lewis Hamilton remarked that why can't the current circuit designer produce circuits like this one, pretty damning of Tilke there.
Unfortunately Ecclestone's desire to further the egos of wealthy dynasties saw to the demise of many of the great traditional tracks, which we are seeing now come back wit a vengeance. As they say out of bad things sometimes come good, so although we live in terrible times with things like the pandemic it has brought about some soul searching and readjustment.
Good for the beleaguered Valterri who produced a mighty lap, but my goodness how impressive was young Gasly and his team, also a good qualification by Kvyatt. I don't think anyone could have dragged more out of the Ferrari than Charles, it looked very average but the young man is a tiger.
Interestingly I was watching some clips on YT last evening and one of the F1 sites quoted an interview with Mika Hakkinen in which he says that the RB situation does not make sense and that the gap between Verstappen and Alexander is not natural and he must it down to the team designing a car around Verstappen's needs which are to the disadvantage of any team mate. This reminds me very much of the situation in MotoGP where Honda have fallen into the same trap with Marc Marquez
and the folly of this mind set has ben fully exposed.
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Post by mikael on Oct 31, 2020 19:56:12 GMT
Yes, hopefully this strange year will, at least, contribute to a return to "real racing tracks", like this beautiful one, and to a revision of the "modern concept" (ref. Tilke).
We all agree there are many problems with modern F1 but, when watching it ... my goodness, the cornering speeds are just mind-blowing! At several corners, the speeds seem almost unreal ...
The evolution of a bit more than 25 years in a nutshell:
Qualification, Imola, 30 April 1994: 1. Ayrton Senna Williams-Renault 1:21.548 2. Michael Schumacher Benetton-Ford 1:21.885 3. Gerhard Berger Ferrari 1:22.113
Qualification, Imola, 31 October 2020:
1. Valtteri Bottas Mercedes 1:13.609 2. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1:13.706
3. Max Verstappen Red Bull Honda 1:14.176
And even then, as I understanding it, the 1994 layout was "faster" than the present layout (some "tweaks" were added after the '94 accidents).
Addendum/correction: Found that, compared to 1994, the present form of the track is some 100 metres shorter, so perhaps a direct comparison is not possible ...
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Post by chrisb on Nov 1, 2020 10:45:07 GMT
of all the sports I love or enjoy or have enjoyed F1 is one of those that is just so much more when seen 'live' at the circuit and the speed they corner these days must be incredible, my problem is, is that what I want, cars that corner like on rails with so much downforce they damage the track, which must be some sight, a real spectacle, my problem would be is that what I want, in answer to both my questions - no, it isn't,
I understand DC is nominating Lewis for a knighthood, I wonder -
Imola was a good circuit - thirsty but brought some good races including motorbike ones, they did react to the 1994 tragedies, and after all a certain Scotsman was the first ever F1 winner - so it can't be bad
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Post by Carl on Nov 2, 2020 1:33:16 GMT
The wake turbulence inevitably (I would say idiotically) caused by aerodynamics maximizing the speed of one car without regard for anyone behind made for a dull event overall. A wonderful circuit praised by the drivers was emasculated for the most part and driving became secondary to pit stop strategy. The last 6 laps after the extended safety period, when pit stops were done, were exciting. Ten percent...  Poor George Russell made the same mistake as Roberto Guerrero, whose embarrassment in 1992 at Indy was even greater since he spun from pole position on the pace lap before the race started! |
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Post by René on Nov 2, 2020 12:18:09 GMT
Yes, hopefully this strange year will, at least, contribute to a return to "real racing tracks", like this beautiful one, and to a revision of the "modern concept" (ref. Tilke). We all agree there are many problems with modern F1 but, when watching it ... my goodness, the cornering speeds are just mind-blowing! At several corners, the speeds seem almost unreal ... The evolution of a bit more than 25 years in a nutshell: Qualification, Imola, 30 April 1994: 1. Ayrton Senna Williams-Renault 1:21.548 2. Michael Schumacher Benetton-Ford 1:21.885 3. Gerhard Berger Ferrari 1:22.113 Qualification, Imola, 31 October 2020:
1. Valtteri Bottas Mercedes 1:13.609 2. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1:13.706
3. Max Verstappen Red Bull Honda 1:14.176
And even then, as I understanding it, the 1994 layout was "faster" than the present layout (some "tweaks" were added after the '94 accidents).
Addendum/correction: Found that, compared to 1994, the present form of the track is some 100 metres shorter, so perhaps a direct comparison is not possible ...
I agree Mikael that the performance of modern F1 cars is just amazing. Looking at those cars and what they can do strictly from an engineering point of view, it's impossible not to be impressed. Cornering speeds are insane and the way they are build, the materials used and all the electronic gizmos makes Starship Enterprise look old fashioned compared to these monsters! But they are simply too fast now and are not real race cars anymore. Also the FIA aknowledges that so lets hope the 2022 cars will be a serious improvement, both in raceability and looks! A direct lap time comparison is indeed difficult with some chicanes added and others removed. I actually think they are more then 10 seconds faster now but that is probably track dependent.
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Post by René on Nov 2, 2020 12:36:28 GMT
The wake turbulence inevitably (I would say idiotically) caused by aerodynamics maximizing the speed of one car without regard for anyone behind made for a dull event overall. A wonderful circuit praised by the drivers was emasculated for the most part and driving became secondary to pit stop strategy. The last 6 laps after the extended safety period, when pit stops were done, were exciting. Ten percent... Poor George Russell made the same mistake as Roberto Guerrero, whose embarrassment in 1992 at Indy was even greater since he spun from pole position on the pace lap before the race started! Yes Carl I agree. These cars are not good 'race' cars but we knew that and it will be the same next year unfortunately. Hopefully 2022 will be better.
Not that much to say about the race. Bottas was unlucky with early floor damage, Gasly even more unlucky with PU issues, Hamilton drove perfect but was lucky with the Virtual SC and Max was unlucky with the tyre blow up. Happy for Danny with his second podium for Renault but not a big fan of the 'shoey'. Just imagine if McLaren builds a winner and we have to endure that shoey every other race...
Good result for Kvyat but that won't be enough to keep his seat. Charles was strong as always and there is definitely improvement with the SF1000.
Anyway, it was still a joy to see F1 cars again at Imola. Some of the images were just beautiful and made me feel nostalgic!
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Post by robmarsh on Nov 2, 2020 12:47:05 GMT
Yep pretty much as per form book for 2020. The one joy about 2020 is that there have been some superb racetracks which sadly we probably won't see again. That and the emergence of the youngsters.
I am not a Mercedes Team fan but I must admit to a grudging respect for what they have achieved over the last seven years. Sure the rules re engine development favoured them but still they have delivered massively.
It looks like we will be seeing less of Tonto next year judging by the post race interview. I wonder who his successor will be.. Lewis Hamilton?
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Post by charleselan on Nov 2, 2020 14:43:04 GMT
Early on in the S*YF1 transmission Martin Brundle stated that it would be unlikely that F1 would return to Imola, those very words ruined the rest of the afternoon for me. This beautifully picturesque venue is by relatively modern standards a wonderful circuit that all of the drivers adored for its challenges.
Unfortunately like many tracks of that period they are quite narrow, Suzuka and Brands Hatch come to mind, and in this instance it emphasised to me how ridiculously large these current trucks are. In fact from some of the camera angles it really was apparent, well it was in my eyes. Overtaking was well nigh impossible due to the aerodynamic influences and even the stupid DRS was ineffective. I personally do not care how glued to the road the blessed things are, downforce doesn't enhance driver skills or viewing spectacle.
As for the race itself I felt for Valterri and how the damage to his car compromised his race, a real shame. However the biggest sympathy vote must go to Pierre Gasly, he was looking so good all weekend and could well have been on the podium. Have to admit I did not feel sorry for Verstappen, karma and all that!
Very good drive by Kvyatt but as stated above, too late now. Also a good drive by Sebastian ruined by a pathetic pit stop mess up. Charles did the best he could with what he had under him and his S*YF1 interview after the race just emphasised what decent and well rounded lad he is.
Poor George Russell drove the wheels off the Williams and then did a rare stupid mistake, but he isn't the first nor will he be the last to make such an error. Sad to see Alexander Albon get all confused about spinning his car and thoughts of being touched by another car when it was all his own mistake, I just hope he will be able to go away and rebuild his career.
Kimi drove yet another fine race, what a first stint.
The commentary team at S*YF1 spent ages blowing smoke up Perez' rear end, obviously angling to get him in the second RB seat.
Now we hear that Lewis might call it a day at years end, maybe posturing, maybe not; if so who fills that seat in 2021?
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Post by Carl on Nov 2, 2020 17:33:24 GMT
Watching Formula One is like going to a car show with new model introductions and fanciful prototypes dazzling with futuristic promise. "Daddy, can someone drive that beautiful car?" "No son, it's just for show." Maybe Formula One will change for the better. Right now it's just for show. --------
I almost always turn elsewhere when the checkered flag waves for the top finishers and had no idea Daniel Ricciardo has continued with that incredible idiocy. It's not funny or clever. Do they think they're Prince Charming with the glass slipper? Too many exhaust fumes... |
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Post by robmarsh on Nov 2, 2020 19:10:31 GMT
I agree Carl-I find it silly and distastefull actually. A lot of my former countrymen do it by drinking from veldschoons (bush shoes) vellies as they are called. Some sort of macho hangover from the Rhodesian/Zimbabwe bush war I think.
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Post by René on Nov 2, 2020 19:16:21 GMT
Early on in the S*YF1 transmission Martin Brundle stated that it would be unlikely that F1 would return to Imola, those very words ruined the rest of the afternoon for me. This beautifully picturesque venue is by relatively modern standards a wonderful circuit that all of the drivers adored for its challenges. Unfortunately like many tracks of that period they are quite narrow, Suzuka and Brands Hatch come to mind, and in this instance it emphasised to me how ridiculously large these current trucks are. In fact from some of the camera angles it really was apparent, well it was in my eyes. Overtaking was well nigh impossible due to the aerodynamic influences and even the stupid DRS was ineffective. I personally do not care how glued to the road the blessed things are, downforce doesn't enhance driver skills or viewing spectacle. As for the race itself I felt for Valterri and how the damage to his car compromised his race, a real shame. However the biggest sympathy vote must go to Pierre Gasly, he was looking so good all weekend and could well have been on the podium. Have to admit I did not feel sorry for Verstappen, karma and all that! Very good drive by Kvyatt but as stated above, too late now. Also a good drive by Sebastian ruined by a pathetic pit stop mess up. Charles did the best he could with what he had under him and his S*YF1 interview after the race just emphasised what decent and well rounded lad he is. Poor George Russell drove the wheels off the Williams and then did a rare stupid mistake, but he isn't the first nor will he be the last to make such an error. Sad to see Alexander Albon get all confused about spinning his car and thoughts of being touched by another car when it was all his own mistake, I just hope he will be able to go away and rebuild his career. Kimi drove yet another fine race, what a first stint. The commentary team at S*YF1 spent ages blowing smoke up Perez' rear end, obviously angling to get him in the second RB seat. Now we hear that Lewis might call it a day at years end, maybe posturing, maybe not; if so who fills that seat in 2021? The old school circuits are all very narrow compared to the Tilke airports, also Zandvoort is like that. And its more obvious with these large cars of today. I did another specification check and it is really only about the length. The cars are now 2 metres wide (introduced in 2017) but cars in the late seventies were already that wide. Comparing the length and width of the 1982 Ferrari 126C2 with the current Ferrari SF1000 gives these numbers: 126C2: width 2,110mm / length 4,333mm SF1000: width 2,000mm / length 5,712mm ! Almost 1,5metres longer!  The SF1000 is fractionally lower though; 950mm to 1,025mm for the 126C2. But they are like a bus as you say. That combined with higher cornering speeds and the aero sensitivity makes it so difficult to overtake. - I forgot to mention Sebastian who did drive a descent race, only ruined by that disastrous pit stop. I did feel for him. Lewis walking away from F1? Well, that would be something but I will only believe that if he really does. He still loves it so much but it would be an amazing decision. |
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Post by mikael on Nov 2, 2020 19:42:02 GMT
Early on in the S*YF1 transmission Martin Brundle stated that it would be unlikely that F1 would return to Imola, those very words ruined the rest of the afternoon for me. This beautifully picturesque venue is by relatively modern standards a wonderful circuit that all of the drivers adored for its challenges. Unfortunately like many tracks of that period they are quite narrow, Suzuka and Brands Hatch come to mind, and in this instance it emphasised to me how ridiculously large these current trucks are. In fact from some of the camera angles it really was apparent, well it was in my eyes. Overtaking was well nigh impossible due to the aerodynamic influences and even the stupid DRS was ineffective. I personally do not care how glued to the road the blessed things are, downforce doesn't enhance driver skills or viewing spectacle.
Yes, it's a real shame that everything has been scaled up in size the way it has. But it seems that it has happened before. The best Grand Prix cars of the mid-1920's were small and nimble. Ten years later, in the mid-30's, the cars had become huge (as exemplified by the Mercedes's and the Auto-Union's of that period). And then again, post-war, approaching the 1960's, the cars became again small and nimble - with Cooper showing the way. So perhaps this could happen again. Particularly if the drivers take the lead in championing the old, classic circuits. One can always hope ...
Bugatti 35, mid-1920's
Mercedes, mid-1930's
Auto-Union, mid-1930's
Cooper, 1960
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it's almost necessary to speak at least one other language.
