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Post by robmarsh on Aug 3, 2020 21:04:22 GMT
Thank you Chris
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Post by Carl on Aug 3, 2020 23:59:12 GMT
Rob, as far as I am concerned that was a brilliant statement and JC certainly speaks sound words, good one mon ami's Rob and John Charles clearly responded to a dull race with brilliant analyses and would likely be welcomed by Martin Brundle with a champagne reception in the broadcast booth. |
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Post by charleselan on Aug 4, 2020 15:07:02 GMT
It would appear that none other than Ross Brawn feels that Charles Leclerc's drive was "exceptional". Good that people like Ross can acknowledge such a performance when the commentary team on S*YF1 failed to give adequate praise.
Understandable with the likes of Croft, but Martin Brundle should have been all over it.
I agree with you other guys in that the Pink Merc's really disappointed, well Stroll Jnr did, Nico had no chance.
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Post by chrisb on Aug 4, 2020 20:50:18 GMT
The real mark of a star is getting a result when you really don't deserve to be that far up - Charles is that star
Seb seemed very lacklustre, was there something going on I am not aware of,
hasFerrari gone out of favour with the media again?
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Post by charleselan on Aug 5, 2020 12:26:10 GMT
I watched an interesting small film last evening on why the Ferrari's performed so differently at Silverstone. It was from the Autosport site, not my go to platform normally and not a big fan of Scott Mitchell but interesting and informative.
Apparently the Ferrari's were set up in low downforce configuration for Silverstone as the team feared that they did not have the power to compete on this track set up with higher downforce settings. This changed the dynamics of the car to such an extent that it necessitated a radical change in how it was driven.
The car became inherently unstable at the rear as a result and this according to the feature accounted for the discrepancy in its drivers performance. Charles whose innate ability allowed him to maximise the car even in these very difficult circumstances whereas Sebastian who hates an unstable rear to the car could not cope.
It was said that Charles driving of the car in these circumstances was positively outstanding and that is what illustrates him to be such a talent. Apparently he was taking certain sections of the circuit where others were lifting off the throttle by applying a small degree of throttle to maximise his cars settings, not maybe explained too well but that is the gist of things.
Ferrari really are in the doo doo at present and fortunate to have such an exceptional talent at their disposal.
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Post by chrisb on Aug 5, 2020 21:04:50 GMT
thanks JC,
whilst Autosport was once the bringer of all information it is no longer essential reading, even MS is starting to get wiser although frustratingly not easier, do not like the new digital format, and despite being a long-time magazine subscriber I cannot access the digital stories, either that or as usual I 'm not doing something I need to - I actually prefer the Crash.net site and thanks to the recommendation for that and I would welcome other similar suggestions
Ferrari have almost become the great red hope that they can take on the might of MB, it is as if we acknolwedge that neither Honda nor Renault can take the fight to MB but are desparate for someone to break this strangelhold
Murray has just apparently made the statement that he reckons Lewis is better than Michael or Ayrton, maybe Michael definetly not Ayrton,
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Post by robmarsh on Aug 6, 2020 8:51:58 GMT
thanks JC, whilst Autosport was once the bringer of all information it is no longer essential reading, even MS is starting to get wiser although frustratingly not easier, do not like the new digital format, and despite being a long-time magazine subscriber I cannot access the digital stories, either that or as usual I 'm not doing something I need to - I actually prefer the Crash.net site and thanks to the recommendation for that and I would welcome other similar suggestions Ferrari have almost become the great red hope that they can take on the might of MB, it is as if we acknolwedge that neither Honda nor Renault can take the fight to MB but are desparate for someone to break this strangelhold Murray has just apparently made the statement that he reckons Lewis is better than Michael or Ayrton, maybe Michael definetly not Ayrton, Chris, I think Murray is just jumping on the bandwagon along with Brundle et al that Lewis is suddenly the greatest. Without trying to appear overly cynical this current increase in the level of praise for Lewis seems to follow the same timeline that F1's current concern about diversity and equality does. None of these were even issues in F1's world seven months ago and now suddenly they are all important because it is important for the optics. That is expediency in my book. In terms of F1 racing this year, all LH has done is win three races with a vastly superior car against a team mate that I equate with Gerhard Berger, but suddenly he has vaulted Senna and Schumacher in terms of greatness. I have never rated Schumacher in the top five of all time greats, he barely makes my top ten, given that he had the best car for at least 50% of the time, did not allow anybody of equal talent near those cars, and apart from Mika Hakinnen, had no one of equal talent or experience against him. When someone got there, Alonso, Schumacher was beaten. Fangio, Clark, Stewart, Lauda, Prost, Senna all raced against some really stiff opposition in cars that did not have the same level of superiority that Schumacher and Hamilton have had for most of their careers. |
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Post by charleselan on Aug 6, 2020 10:24:56 GMT
Murray Walker is 95 years old now and as lovely a bloke as he is he never was the ideal critique of racing driver greatness. His enthusiasm was boundless, and probably still is, but as someone I would value as a expert knowledge base that would not be so.
Many are now saying Lewis Hamilton is the greatest ever, but just look who those people are. Media types, the like of those on Autosport. Not one of them have real life knowledge of anything preceding the 1980's, a bit like me trying to talk about 1930's raving and the greats of that period.
The keyboard jocks on various forums are all of a similar generation and have no idea, probably many never even saw the likes of Ayrton; Alain or Niki etc, let alone Jim; JYS; Ronnie or Gilles.
Some idiot on Crash stated that Lewis in his debut year would have beaten Schumacher in his pomp. Ha! I doubt that very much, and I am not a Michael fan.
As far as Ayrton is concerned i have yet to see Lewis put in a drive that compares to some of Senna's greatest. He has had the car for years now but never has he turned in a Monaco lap, at Monaco, like Ayrton did in 1988.
Greatness to me can only be truly applied when a driver has shown shear genius in a car that is total crap, or outclassed by the pace setters. I have seen this with Jim (Zandvoort 1966); Gilles ( Jarama 1981); Ronnie (Dijon 1974); JYS ( March 701 1970 many occasions).
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Post by René on Aug 6, 2020 11:34:20 GMT
I agree with a lot you guys say but there is one aspect of Murray Walker's comment that must not be overlooked; the fact that Lewis has reached his enormous success without ever being unsportsmanlike unlike Senna or Schumacher. That also contributes to greatness. And I agree with him.
But I've never been a fan of this 'greatest of' discussion as I don't believe you can really compare the different eras. Certainly when they are more than 20 or 30 years apart. But it's always obvious who are the best of a certain era and I do believe they would also have been amongst the best in a different time. It's still the same set of qualities that makes certain drivers stand out, just look at Charles and what he showed last weekend.
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Post by robmarsh on Aug 6, 2020 12:49:07 GMT
Murray does have a point though I am not sure if LH is blemish free.
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Post by charleselan on Aug 6, 2020 13:21:52 GMT
Some people conveniently seem to have short memories, or maybe deem certain moves to not be as bad as the naughty boys  . Lewis Hamilton is not whiter than white with respect of driving etiquette, but all we hear is "hard but fair". Unless of course the same move is applied on him. |
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Post by René on Aug 6, 2020 14:05:29 GMT
Murray does have a point though I am not sure if LH is blemish free. Who is Rob, who is? |
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Post by robmarsh on Aug 6, 2020 16:20:38 GMT
Murray does have a point though I am not sure if LH is blemish free. Who is Rob, who is? I go along with Charles. What was once deemed rough seems to be fair these days. The thing is I don't recall the commentators being as harsh on Senna and Schumacher at the time as they are now, that is why I find it a little expedient and LH has only cleaned up his act since Bottas doesn't push him like Nico did. Albon may also have a different view. |
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Post by charleselan on Aug 6, 2020 16:30:41 GMT
I go along with Charles. What was once deemed rough seems to be fair these days. The thing is I don't recall the commentators being as harsh on Senna and Schumacher at the time as they are now, that is why I find it a little expedient and LH has only cleaned up his act since Bottas doesn't push him like Nico did. Albon may also have a different view. Absolutely Rob. Has Bottas ever gone wheel to wheel with Lewis Hamilton? I still maintain to this day that Nico Rosberg was hard done by at Spa, when lead by Kravitz a witch hunt was started against the lad. I will never forgive Kravitz for that terrible bit of "journalism", it was an abject disgrace. Hamilton was always criticising drivers for pushing him wide when going around the outside himself, yet what does he do in the reverse role. |
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Post by Carl on Aug 6, 2020 17:27:52 GMT
I agree with a lot you guys say but there is one aspect of Murray Walker's comment that must not be overlooked; the fact that Lewis has reached his enormous success without ever being unsportsmanlike unlike Senna or Schumacher. That also contributes to greatness. And I agree with him.
But I've never been a fan of this 'greatest of' discussion as I don't believe you can really compare the different eras. Certainly when they are more than 20 or 30 years apart. But it's always obvious who are the best of a certain era and I do believe they would also have been amongst the best in a different time. It's still the same set of qualities that makes certain drivers stand out, just look at Charles and what he showed last weekend.
Rene, You overlook the many times Hamilton deliberately punted Rosberg into the boondocks at the first opportunity, usually at turn one after the start, and his childish antics in Abu Dhabi.
I was thrilled for Lewis in 2008 at Interlagos, but as he became filled with himself over the years I began wishing the more deserving Felipe Massa had been champion.
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