British Grand Prix - Silverstone

[charleselan]

My goodness I hate the new Silverstone, the old place was a bit bleak but had more character than this current rendition.

The gap from the MB's to the rest is depressing, F! cannot allow this to continue much longer. In days gone by the FIA would have changed the formula by now, unfortunately C19 has meant that we have another year of this crap. A single year of dominance is bad enough, but how many is it now, not taking into consideration the false results of last year with the Ferrari power unit discrepancy.

Maybe a "Balance of Performance" should be introduced.

[René]

I am not that negative about the new Silverstone to be honest. Yes it's not what it used to be but the new part, especially around Luffield is quite good I think. But maybe that's because I was at Luffield in 2016...

Mercedes's advantage is depressing indeed. We've seen dominance before but this is on a new level. It's a shame and I agree something needs to be done soon. The original planning was of course next season but with the covid freeze we've got another year of this. 

Some encouraging speed from Ferrari though but their long run pace was not that strong so for Charles to keep up with Max will not be easy. But a replay from their fight from last year would not be bad. 

Disappointing result however for the pink cars. The Hulk needs time to adjust but Stroll did not have the speed from friday. 

Rain or a crash between the Mercs would be a welcome scenario...

[charleselan]

Probably a bit harsh of me about Silverstone, but to me as an old-timer who visited there for the first time in 1969 the year of the titanic JYS & Jochen battle, it isn't the same. Yes it was old world and quite crude but there wasn't the huge expanses of corporate hospitality that has ruined the whole spectator experience.

I should imagine that the Luffield area is quite good, and it was forming into something before I stopped going, however there will never be a replacement for Woodcote or the original Club Corner, as well as Abbey Curve and the original Becketts. But yes it was crude; bleak and too flat.

Charles performance was outstanding in that car, but as you say René he will struggle to keep it going for race distance, and what of Sebastian . Hulk did well considering that he had been thrown in without any preparation, Stroll should have been far better after all the "promise". McLaren continue to impress and looking the real deal now.

I like Valterri as a person and he is a good driver, but he isn't the guy to push Lewis and rattle his cage, the guy that should be in that car is languishing in the bloody Williams. Three years for a talent like that to be driving the dogs off a no hoper is not good for the sport. Shame George wasn't a Fizzy Drinks prodigy he would be up the front by now, rather than being screwed by the MB machine.

[robmarsh]

Charles and Rene I absolutely agree with you re Seb. I think he has behaved like an absolute gentleman over his Ferrari dismissal. The same can't be said for Ferrari. He does come across very well chatting to Martin Brundle and he would be a loss. I really hope he gets the Aston Martin drive and manages to do something with the car and win some races.

I am getting really tired of Mercedes and their domination. They may have some brilliant engineers etc but they also spend about 30% more than the next team and it is becoming very off putting. They really stole a march on the other teams with their power train in 2014 but then were helped immeasurably by the rules that restricted the number of engine upgrades that other teams could bring. I think it will become counter productive to what they are trying to achieve in terms of marketing soon.

The other night I watched a BBC4 documentary on the pre war silver arrows and their domination of the sport. They mentioned that the spectators at the 1936 British GP at Donnington booed the cars for their domination. Both the teams were state sponsored then and both Auto Union and Mercedes carried Nazi swastikas on their cars by the driver, especially when they were doing the high speed runs on the autobahns.

[chrisb]

Thanks to C4 I watched it live, well I also listened to Lee interviewing Seb, and that quite frankly was the highlight, i kept muting the sound button whenever that idiot was on and DC when on script is awful - off script he is quite acceptable.

the MB'a are just so far ahead and in the best will as much as he can be fast at certain times Bottas is just not in Lewis's league, that was some pole position, but to keep harking on about how many poles he has and 'forgetting' to mention how many years he has been in a top, reliable car is a bit irritating, but you can't take it away from him he does what he needs to do in the equipment provided, bet he was pleased he was 'talked' into joining MB- but surely at some stage this domination becomes counter-productive and starts having a negative impact on their marketing. Do think George would be a lot closer but wonder if MB would be ok with two Brits in their team

Wasn't that documentary a peach Rob, may well watch it again,

JC, Silverstone, before the changes and after Woodcote was ok, the 'back section' was amazing, yes it was flat and the staff were akin to guards in a prison,I always tried to sit at Stowe watching down the Hangar straight, amazing Stowe, followed by Club and Abbey, you could with binoculars see the cars at Maggotts, a bit of Beckets and the then the fun, and now, yes theHangar is still there as is Stowe but the Vale all the way around to Becketts sorry just not as good for me,

[charleselan]

Rob & Chris,

Definitely negative marketing could emerge from this MB dominance. Admittedly it must be said that currently Lewis Hamilton is the best all round package in F1, but a legacy based on having such a dominant car does him little credit.

F1 desperately needs far more competitive teams at the front with different marques disputing the race wins, what is happening in this current era is terribly bad for the sport in the long run. I mentioned above the issue with young George Russell, he cannot be allowed to fester away in uncompetitive machinery like this. I firmly believe that he is on a par with Max and Charles and if MB are keeping him in the wings until Lewis retires then that is truly appalling considering that Hamilton has said he is going on for at least another three years.

I am no technophobe but I still remain convinced that this current formula is a negative for F1 and as Rob points out above the rot began with MB developing their power train and the restrictions on development through a season. The formula needs to be far simpler with some technical innovation, but the emphasis on it being a drivers championship; and I do not mean a spec series either.

With regard to the BBC4 film, not certain I have seen it or not, I take it isn't the Richard Seaman film? Hitler used the "Silver Arrows" as a major propaganda tool. From my understanding they always had a swastika emblazoned on the head rest fairing behind the drivers head, however after WW2 the pictures published had to have it airbrushed out. Only recently have photos emerged with them in place, and of course in movies.

[René]

Lewis is a phenomenal driver and I believe him to be on par with the best from the past but I agree having the best car (by far) for so many years does not strengthen his legacy. The best drivers always end up in the best car but this is plainly too much. Not his fault of course but now he has only Bottas to fight which is a fight he will always win under normal circumstances. He is simply better than Bottas. And with an imploded Ferrari and a one-horse Red Bull team, there is almost no outside pressure, whatever Toto may say...

Yes, George Russell. He has signed for another year which is way too long for such a talent to drive around at the back. Look at Lando and how his career and confidence is getting a boost from a resurgent McLaren. F1 can be very harsh so let's hope that George doesn't miss the boat somehow. Seems highly unlikely given his talent but it has happened before.

[mikael]

In relation to a second race on the same circuit; and in relation to driving in the opposite direction the second time, as we talked about earlier here: Formula E is actually doing just that:

www.fiaformulae.com/en/news/2020/july/berlin-layouts

[Carl]

Formula One reminds me of any other structured class system in need of reformation. Where are the Thomas Paines and Nat Turners of motorsport? All fat and content with their corporate largesse.

Would Ecclestone have been targeted by Guy Fawkes?

"I'll tip my hat to the new constitution

Take a bow for the new revolution

Smile and grin at the change all around

Get into my car and play

Just like yesterday

Then I'll get on my knees and pray

We don't get fooled again

Don't get fooled again

No, no"

Appreciation and apologies to Pete Townshend

[robmarsh]

Nice touch to see Gilles Pironi on the podium receiving the Constructors Trophy on behalf of Mercedes, especially given the way Lewis finished the race. He and his twin brother Didier, are the sons of Didier Pironi.

In fact if it hadn't been for the last three laps I was about to consign that race to my top three most boring races, the other two being Kyalami 1992 and Silverstone 1992.

Excellent drive by Charles Leclerc, in fact an excellent weekend for him in stark contrast to his team mate. Racing Point flattered to deceive and outstanding drives by the McLaren and Renault drivers along with Pierre Gasly.

I think Alex Albon may have to curb his instincts just a bit until he has gained more experience at this level.

It seems increasingly likely that Seb will move to Aston Martin next year. I hope he does. I do have a question however, and that is what engine will the team use? Mercedes I guess but then it wouldn't be an Aston Martin would it?


The drivers were a bit more organised this time in their stand against racism, due to some hard work by LH behind the scenes. I agree that something needs to be done but I have one comment though. LH has been going on all week that the drivers are not presenting a united front yet he is the only one appearing with a Black Lives matter T shirt at the drivers presentation. To me that is devisive. Racism is not just about black vs white, it is much bigger than that. It is about people being discriminated against because of their ethnicity, beliefs, etc. Ask the Jewish people, the Rommanys and other minor ethnic groups that lived in the areas controlled by Hitler 100 years ago or those with different religious beliefs like the Christians and Muslims currently living in China. I raise this point here because it has been very prevalent on Sky news bulletins and their F1 shows this last week. If F1 is really serious about pushing the diversity issue and making a stand against racism and human rights, then it has no business going anywhere near Russia or China until those countries alter their approach to minorities.

I also think that F1 needs to make itself accessible to more people, it is far too elitist, just look at who gets tickets to the Paddock Club and the pits and the price of tickets to any Grand Prix. The right crowd and no crowding mentality still exists. How many people here and famous people in the past got hooked on motor racing because they went to a major race meeting as a family or with their parents and got to see the heroes close up. Nowadays most people can't afford that and the heroes are ensconced in helmets and halos. To instill enthusiasm and encourage people to partake in a sport people need to have access. You will never make F1 racially equal according to demographics at the driver level, look at Moto GP, it's full of Spaniards at the moment, but you can make it more diverse overall by encouraging people to take up engineering, analysis, pit work etc. To do that, they must be able to experience it for themselves, up close and personal as David Coulthard likes to say. I got interested in yachting as a kid, not from hero worshipping my dad as he sailed by but when he took me in his dinghy and let me experience it for myself.

[charleselan]

That is a great post Rob, especially para six which is most profound. I do think that Lewis is very wrapped up in the "Black lives Matter" movement and rightly so. His interview with Martin Brundle on S*YF1 was actually very good and he is doing an immense amount of work in trying to get black kids into places that previously they have had no chance of doing. Kudos to him for all that he is doing.

Moving on to the event at Silverstone; yep it was pretty boring and predictable with Croft at times sounding as though his pants were on fire. Some of his comments are absurd and even Martin Brundle must be embarrassed by them, his ability to correct ever so politely is telling at times.

The Fizzy Drinks team dropped the ball by bringing Max in, they had that race handed to them on a plate. Just shame that there isn't a team strong enough to put a little more pressure on MB for those tyre issues would have manifested themselves earlier in my opinion. I was surprised at how compliant Max was with regard to the scenario, I thought he would have been spitting his dummy at stopping.

For me the drive of the race was Charles Leclerc, an absolutely stunning drive in that car, and little credit given by the UK media. That drive was the sort of performance JYS would have done when he had an uncompetitive car; it wasn't a solid drive it was outstanding.

The McLaren boys were also superb, and it was a real tragedy for Carlos Sainz at the end to get the same tyre fault as the MB's. He was already telling the team he had bad vibrations, but with the pressure of Ricciardo behind Lando he had to keep pushing.

Pierre Gasly was also very impressive and drove exceptionally well throughout. Alexander Albon is having a very difficult time and he didn't need that lung at Kevin, after that he drove a strong race with pace that was very close to Max. It was mentioned on race commentary that they have made some serious changes to Alexander's race team, many who were very inexperienced including his engineer. Should not have been like that from the outset, a new driver needs an experienced hand from the beginning.

One final thought, what has poor Nico Hulkenburg done, as John Watson would have said "he must nave run over a nun at some time"

[robmarsh]

Excellent post Charles. I have really enjoyed the interviews that LH has had with Martin Brundle. He really comes across as a really good, sincere individual and I think he has grown into his role as senior statesman very well. He has done a lot of work and is the best person to lead this initiative. Another fun video i enjoyed was LH, VB and Tonto messing around at Silverstone with some rather expensive Mercs. I enjoyed the obvious cameraderie and the respect they had for each other.

I think your comparison of Charles Leclerc to JYS is spot on. I read the book on 1970 by Mark Hughes and it illustrates all to clearly how well JYS drove that year in the March on Dunlop tyres. In fact I think that was probably his greatest driving year and it goes mostly unnoticed.

I was gutted for Nico, hope he gets a go this weekend.

[charleselan]

Aug 3, 2020 13:08:14 GMT robmarsh said:

Excellent post Charles. I have really enjoyed the interviews that LH has had with Martin Brundle. He really comes across as a really good, sincere individual and I think he has grown into his role as senior statesman very well. He has done a lot of work and is the best person to lead this initiative. Another fun video i enjoyed was LH, VB and Tonto messing around at Silverstone with some rather expensive Mercs. I enjoyed the obvious cameraderie and the respect they had for each other.

I think your comparison of Charles Leclerc to JYS is spot on. I read the book on 1970 by Mark Hughes and it illustrates all to clearly how well JYS drove that year in the March on Dunlop tyres. In fact I think that was probably his greatest driving year and it goes mostly unnoticed.

I was gutted for Nico, hope he gets a go this weekend.

Rob,

That was exactly what I was thinking about with regard to JYS. Extracting the absolute maximum from a car that is none too good is the sign of someone truly exceptional in my opinion.

JC

[René]

Despite the fact that the race itself was boring, there were several outstanding drives to enjoy. 

I think both Charles and Max showed who are the big two for the coming years (after Lewis & Seb). The Ferrari had no place being there but Charles forced it in that position anyway. The sign of greatness. And Max is taming that sometimes visually difficult to drive Red Bull in a brilliant manner. Top class. 

And not far behind the McLaren boys with very strong drives. Lando is a revelation and Ferrari may be content with signing Carlos. Daniel was also driving at his best. Give the Aussie a good car and he will deliver. And what a joy to see Pierre back on form. He is seriously good and has the best of Daniil so far.

Lewis was top as always. So still a lot of positives after a boring race! 

[chrisb]

gutted for the Hulk, he really did deserve better, his team-mate was not so impressive in the race and Perez would have probably been a top 6 finisher.

i was thankful to C4 for it's live coverage, less so of its - what do you call him - compere? presenter-or something you can suggest yourselves, and had to mute the times he dominated proceedings, obviously switching it on whenever Lee was around, but the 'race' was another matter, a friend of mine who waxes lyrical of how great modern F1 is - unsuccessfully as it turns out' even acknowledged how boring it was until the tyre problems, which according to Mark H was a combination of sheer downforce and carbon fibre shards, in saying that the F1 future looks brighter than it has since the V10 days, the new cars look much better and any reduction in downforce is always going to be good, but as a recent survey confirms more than enough people are interested in these fantastic technical beasts but far more are interested in the personalities, and totally agree withRene, Charles, Max, Lando, George et al are looking good, some clever drives but the Mercs domination is just getting monotonous and having watched Scotty beaming as he won 2 out of 3 WSB races with great excitiment the F1 race flattered to deceive.

Rob, as far as I am concerned that was a brilliant statement and JC certainly speaks sound words, good one mon ami's