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Post by chrisb on Apr 21, 2019 19:02:52 GMT
that is fascinating Mikael, thank you for that -
Rene - the 'new' Zandvoort looks ok, reminds me a bit of a truncated Brands without the paddock hill bend, should produce some interesting racing
Carl, so am I and having the original Johnny Weismuller collection I have practised....but to limited avail - must be when I hit my chest and start coughing
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2019 20:44:21 GMT
Carl, so am I and having the original Johnny Weismuller collection I have practised....but to limited avail - must be when I hit my chest and start coughing Chris, its not the coughing, its the loin cloth ;-) |
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Post by René on Apr 22, 2019 12:51:47 GMT
Absolutely Carl, most definitily the same spot; coming out of the Gerlachbocht into the Hugenholzbocht. This part up to Scheivlak is the same as in the old days. Hey Rene, Maybe you can fill us in on some of the names of the corners? I've heard of Arie Luyendijk from CART & indy racing, but don't know who Hans Ernst or Rob Slotemaker are. How did Slotemaker superceed Jan de Wijker, and what is the story behind the fabously named 'Tarzan curve' (I'm guessing bocht is curve?) Jim, I am not as familiar with Zandvoort as Carl suggested. Zolder and Spa are more my 'home' tracks as they are much closer for me living near the southern border. But being Dutch, Zandvoort is of course my official home track and I have been there quite a few times in the past for the Grand Prix but also the Masters of Formula 3. I did find some interesting stuff however re. your questions, some I didn't know myself. Here we go... 'Bocht' is indeed Dutch for curve and to start the lap at start/finish it goes as follows; 1) the most famous curve is the Tarzanbocht named after Maarten Zwemmer, an old man who used to own a small potatoe field at that spot and Maarten was nicknamed Tarzan because of his fierce appearance! 2) The Gerlachbocht is named after Dr. Gerlach who crashed and died at that spot in a touringcar race in the fifties. They say his wife shouted at the crowds in despair: "are you happy now?" 3) The Hugenholzbocht is named after John 'Hans' Hugenholz, former circuit director and co-designer of the track. As Mikael correctly mentioned he was also involved in the Suzuka track design but not for the entire track but for some parts. The same goes for Zandvoort. But an important figure nonetheless in those days. 4) The Hunserug is named after one of the other circuit designers, Cas Hunse. 'Rug' means back or spine and that is probably a reference how the track goes upwards. 5a) Jan de Wijker zijn Veld (Jan de Wijker's field) goes over a piece of land that was owned by the De Wijker family. 5b) This part of the track was later renamed Rob Slotemakerbocht after the legendary rally, race and stunt driver, former fighter pilot and founder of the Rob Slotemaker slipschool at Zandvoort. He raced mainly touringcars but also raced at Le Mans and was responsible for several stunts and race actions in the famous Le Mans film with Steve McQueen. He was the most important tutor to Jan Lammers who started as a kid at the slipschool washing cars and spraying the track! Rob Slotemaker crashed and died in 1979 at this spot now named after him. A legendary figure in Dutch motorsport. 6) Scheivlak (or scheidingsvlak) means separation plane or interface, the highest point of the circuit. 7) Hondenvlak (dogs plane) and... 8) ...Tunnel Oost (tunnel east) were the fastest parts of the old track and also the part of two F1 fatalities (Williamson and Courage). Hondenvlak/Tunnel Oost 9) The Panoramabocht was sponsored by a well known magazine called Panorama, best known for the scantily dressed ladies on the cover... 10a) and then we take Bos Uit which means out of the woods back on the main straight. 10b) Bos Uit was renamed the Arie Luyendijkbocht after the two time Indy 500 winner. 11) In the new part we now have the Hans Ernst bocht. Hans is a former circuit director who guided the circuit through its most difficult period from the early 90s until 2012 with great success. Here's a great clip of little 17 year old Jantje (little Jan) Lammers. It's in Dutch but very nice to watch. Also a bit of racing with Simcas and the last two minutes an interview with Rob Slotemaker (with burned hands because of a fire in the slipschool). |
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Post by mikael on Apr 22, 2019 13:53:11 GMT
2) The Gerlachbocht is named after Dr. Gerlach who crashed and died at that spot in a touringcar race in the fifties. They say his wife shouted at the crowds in despair: "are you happy now?" 3) The Hugenholzbocht ...
René, very fascinating, all of it. As to "Gerlachbocht" - it makes you wonder if John Frankenheimer had heard this story and used it in his "Grand Prix"? Miss Frederickson's outburst after Jean-Pierre Sarti's fatal accident (in the movie) is reminiscent of this story. (She shouted, I believe, "Is this what you want?")
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Post by charleselan on Apr 22, 2019 14:43:21 GMT
Some fantastic information and detail about Zandvoort guys, really interesting and where else would we find such material other than RRT  . Also the revelations of the horrors that went with motor sport back in those days, makes you realise what a callous world it was in some respects. For me Zandvoort will always be associated with those two terrible accidents that claimed Piers Courage and Roger Williamson. Young men whose great talent was never fully realised and they paid the ultimate price to the absolute despair of their loved ones. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2019 9:59:05 GMT
Rene,
Thanks so much for researching that background on the Zandvoort circuit, and the video clip of Jante Lammers - hard to believe he was 17, he looks even younger than that - nice car control though.
It seems that Ron Slotemaker must have been a real character of Dutch motor sport too.
As Charles says - the kind of interaction and information that only RRT can provide
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Post by charleselan on Apr 23, 2019 11:53:33 GMT
As Jim points out it is hard to believe that Jan Lammers was 17 years old in that clip, for he looks half that age to me. A great little driver who didn't get the breaks in F1 his talents deserved, but his front line sports prototype career was up with the very best, one of Uncle Tom's elite at TWR Jaguar.
I had forgotten that Robbie Slotemaker had died at Zandvoort, he had a very varied career but the one aspect that comes to mind is the stunt driving and car control specialism.
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Post by René on Apr 23, 2019 15:43:41 GMT
Rene, Thanks so much for researching that background on the Zandvoort circuit, and the video clip of Jante Lammers - hard to believe he was 17, he looks even younger than that - nice car control though. It seems that Ron Slotemaker must have been a real character of Dutch motor sport too. As Charles says - the kind of interaction and information that only RRT can provide You're welcome. I've learned a few things myself about Zandvoort I didn't know before. Lammers always looked young for his age and he was always very small. In a way he still looks young even now in his 60s. |
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Post by chrisb on Apr 24, 2019 21:02:06 GMT
gosh I hadn't realised how small Jan is, that surprised me,
Rene, that is fantastic - thank you
JC, Piers's accident has never really been explained to me, did his suspension or steering break, was it a mechanical problem or a driver error? but Roger's terrible fate was just so preventable and I guess haunts me - in the same way Tom Pryce's does, such an utterly needless death that really really should never ever have happened, and whilst that is not in any way criticising Zandvoort as we saw so many terrible accidents that needn't have ended in tragedy but for bloody stupidity on so many circuits, honestly 40 odd years on it still makes my angry - some accidents will happen and there will be tragedy that is the nature of racing but it was the senselessness that has always bugged me -
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Post by Carl on Apr 25, 2019 4:11:54 GMT
gosh I hadn't realised how small Jan is, that surprised me, Rene, that is fantastic - thank you JC, Piers's accident has never really been explained to me, did his suspension or steering break, was it a mechanical problem or a driver error? but Roger's terrible fate was just so preventable and I guess haunts me - in the same way Tom Pryce's does, such an utterly needless death that really really should never ever have happened, and whilst that is not in any way criticising Zandvoort as we saw so many terrible accidents that needn't have ended in tragedy but for bloody stupidity on so many circuits, honestly 40 odd years on it still makes my angry - some accidents will happen and there will be tragedy that is the nature of racing but it was the senselessness that has always bugged me - Chris, Your sense of the probable cause is very accurate.
Quoted from Wikipedia: "Running in the middle of the field, the De Tomaso's front suspension or steering broke on the bump at Tunnel Oost, causing the car to suddenly go straight on instead of finishing the high-speed bend."
-Carl
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Post by charleselan on Apr 25, 2019 11:42:35 GMT
Do you know that I was never aware that piers accident was as a result of mechanical failure; or more to the point if I did it has escaped me as the years have passed. I could not believe that a driver of his skill and ability would have made an error at that point, and it is now clear.
I always rated Piers Courage right from his early days in Formula 3 when he was one of the bright rising stars driving the beautiful Team Lotus 41, one of the best looking cars of that period. His early F1 career floundered somewhat but he regrouped brilliantly with Frank Williams and in 1969 looked really good with the beautifully prepared Brabham BT26.
The De Tomaso move for 1970 was a logical one as their little F2 car had really looked good by the end of 1969, however I don't think the partnership ever recovered from Piers accident and lasted but one season.
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Post by charleselan on Apr 25, 2019 17:46:49 GMT
I had hopes to e able to upload a picture of Piers Courage in the Charlie Lucas Team Lotus 41 but not one available on the internet it would appear. There was a super photo in Motorsport magazine back in the day of Piers winning the F3 round at Rouen Les Essart, but not on the internet anywhere. However I have found a great shot of him at Thruxton in the 1968 Easter Monday meeting driving the Frank Williams Brabham BT23C (another beautiful 1960's race car) leading JPB in the Matra MS7 and eventual race winner the great Jochen Rindt in his Winklemann BT23C. Jochen actually spun off while leading the final and shot through an advertising hoarding, yet still managed to win, the first of three successive F2 victories at this venue. Piers eventually retired with damage to his radiator.  |
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Post by Carl on Apr 25, 2019 20:06:10 GMT
John Charles, I have seen that wonderful photo you posted several times, each time staring for minutes at what must be one of the best displays of close racing among great drivers.
I wonder if Google Images may return different results depending on our locations... I found this one, taken at Crystal Palace on May 30th, 1966, showing Jackie Oliver, Roy Pike and Piers Courage all in Lotus 41s.
And this publicity shot of a roguish appearing Frank Williams and his driver (I believe in his BT26), according to the caption at Zandvoort sometime in 1969. If correct, it would have been early in the year, before the adoption of more stout rollbars.
Cheers, Carl 
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Post by charleselan on Apr 26, 2019 15:32:15 GMT
John Charles, I have seen that wonderful photo you posted several times, each time staring for minutes at what must be one of the best displays of close racing among great drivers.
I wonder if Google Images may return different results depending on our locations... I found this one, taken at Crystal Palace on May 30th, 1966, showing Jackie Oliver, Roy Pike and Piers Courage all in Lotus 41s.
And this publicity shot of a roguish appearing Frank Williams and his driver (I believe in his BT26), according to the caption at Zandvoort sometime in 1969. If correct, it would have been early in the year, before the adoption of more stout rollbars.
Cheers, Carl
Carl, Two great photos. The three Charles Lucas Team Lotus 41's at Crystal Palace running line astern is superb and I do recall seeing it on the well known picture site the other day. I have no memory of Jackie Oliver driving for that team, but obviously he did. The first instant of hearing about him was when he drove a Ford Mustang in the British Saloon car Championship and also the white with green stripe Lotus Components Formula Two Lotus 41B. In the second car (Piers Courage is in the third car) is American Roy Pike who was one of the best Formula Three racers for many years and someone who I find hard to believe never got a Formula One chance as he was exceptionally good. The closest he came was the hint of driving the second Eagle to Big Dan, but it was never fulfilled. A great waste of talent in my opinion as Roy was every bit as good as many who graduated to the top formula. I understand that he settled in the UK, down in Somerset, and he was and still is into house renovations. The Frank Williams publicity shot shows Piers sat in the Brabham BT24 that was purchased and fitted with a 2.5 litre DFV motor for that winters Tasman Series. This being the forerunner to the BT26 that Frank purchased from a British Hill Climb driver, much I believe to the annoyance of Jack Brabham. During the following F1 season it made an interesting comparison seeing the works BT26's running on Goodyear tyres against the Williams car on Dunlops. John Charles |
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Post by René on Apr 27, 2019 11:26:14 GMT
Bratches admits Dutch GP deal is doneZandvoort appears to have "a deal" in place with Liberty Media for a Dutch GP in 2020. After a March 31 deadline, and subsequent media reports that a deal has been struck, the story about Zandvoort returning to the F1 calendar suddenly went quiet. So Olav Mol, the well-known commentator for Dutch television Ziggo Sport, caught up with F1 commercial boss Sean Bratches in the Baku paddock. Mol asked Bratches if it was time for some news about Zandvoort, and the American reportedly answered: "Yes, it might be time. "We have a deal," Mol quoted Bratches as adding. Source: grandprix.comNothing official yet from Zandvoort or FOM but it appears an announcement is due.
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