Sir Stirling Moss

[René]

It is with great sadness that I read the news Stirling Moss has died today.

Without a doubt one of the best and fastest racing drivers of all time.

Of course his career was way before my time but I feel privileged that I had the chance to exchange a few words with him at Goodwood in 2009 where he also signed a book for me. A great memory.

Never a Formula One World champion but a great champion nonetheless.

Rest in peace.

[Jamie]

Rest in peace Sir Stirling....I understand he had been ill for some time and it seems the end was peaceful and painless which is nice to hear.

Stirling was never someone I revered as much as I probably should if I'm honest and I never really took to him and his image as some do, there is no doubt that he was a motorsport colossus though and hugely influential.

Another of the great characters gone......as my own personal tribute I will look to find out more about a racer I have definitely overlooked for some unfathomable reason.........and recommendations for good reading material gents?

[chrisb]

I would echo your comments Jamie, although I have many interviews in MS and Autosport, I have but one book on Stirling and never warmed to him as I did others, 

I was very fortunate to have seen Stirling drive, I would say race but it was in the Audi in the BTCC and quite frankly he wasn't very competitive, I also saw him once at the Race Retro bombing around in a motorised golf cart, not sure if this was after his terrible accident in the lift,

he was fantastic, he was quick, he was sort of patriotic, he was a contradiction, he could show great intelligence - was that Argentinia 58? in the Cooper and he could dominate as few others, he was also the rabbit in so many races, Le Mans springs to mind, he came back after some horrendous moments, Spa in 1960 that dreadful weekend so sadly overlooked, and in tribute I watched the 1961 Monaco GP again this morning, it was pretty special and in spectacular colour, as was the dangling cigarette, I always preferred the German GP of that year, i always saw that as more tactical and a more intelligent drive but incredible nonetheless. 

I don't know why but I will always associate Stirling more with sports cars, surely the greatest victory of them all, the year of my birth and surely one of the most brilliant drives in history- he was also very adept at Team Stirling, how he forged a very successful second career post Goodwood, and how he loved any new innovations and inventions and they would quickly grace his beautiful home, I was so saddened to hear this news, although as JC says, 90 is a good innings and having survived the brutality and dangers for the past 70 years whilst so many others didn't, is by itself an incredible achievement- 

I am watching more and more Pete Windsor stuff on utub and it is uncovering some real gems, one of which is a conversation with Stirling, where they talk of Goodwood in 62 and what may have happened, and something I hadn't heard previously where he spoke of Graham taking a wider line than most and the marshals waving flags which Stirling wondered if he had misread and gotten onto the grass and by then uncontrollable, which led to a discussion around braking and it just struck me how Stirling and Jimmy paid so much more attention to this art than others seemed to, both trying to create different apex's and Jimmy's comments more about when I come off the brakes as opposed to come on the brakes and Stirling being the last of the late breakers, magical words from both


rest in peace great man and thank you  

[charleselan]

From my perspective I do not believe that people really understand how big a sporting super star Stirling Moss was in the later part of the 1950's and up until after his accident, unless you were actually around in those times. He really was massively popular and the forerunner of the professional racing driver in every sense.

When I started to become interested in car racing which followed on from motorcycle scrambling/motocross which was my initial introduction to motorised sport, Stirling Moss in the Vanwall was the ultimate. His name along with Mike Hawthorne; Peter Collins; Tony Brookes and of course JM Fangio were the ones that information centred upon. Fangio was more or less retired when i began to take an interest although I do have clear memories of him and the Cuban kidnapping affair, but not the amazing 1957 season itself. Having said that I do remember the news media reporting about the wins he achieved in 1957 driving the Vanwall.

So therefore 1958 was the first really clear recollection I have of Grand Prix car racing and with everyone in the UK following Vanwall and in particular "The Boy". For me 1958 was one of the great seasons, but like some of the others that followed it was blighted by terrible tragedy.

After Vanwall withdrew from racing I really doubt that Stirling ever had the best cars at his disposal in F1 even though Rob Walker gave him the very best he could as a privateer. Maybe the Coopers he had in 1959 and occasionally in 1960 were comparable to the factory cars, and likewise the Lotus 18 in 1960 but a driver of his stature should have been in the very best works cars.

I do believe that the 1961 Monaco GP drive was an outstanding performance and did actually watch the bits that were transmitted live by the BBC and it was edge of the seat stuff, no doubt in my mind one of the greatest drives in the sports history. The German GP win was also against the odds, and was achieved by tactical mastery and outstanding driving by the best of that period.

One drive that often gets overlooked as it wasn't a Grand Prix but illustrated his complete mastery and that as the 1961 International Trophy race which was run for the ill-starred Formula Intercontinental rules. Driving Rob Walkers 2.5 litre Cooper Climax in absolutely diabolical conditions of driving rain, Stirling I believe won by over a lap from the second placed finisher. This was yet another race that I watched live on the BBC Saturday Grandstand program, and I sat in awe watching him that day.

The accident at Goodwood over the Easter weekend of 1962 quite literally shook the nation and his state of health was always on the news for weeks afterwards. As he recovered the speculation was always "when is Stirling going to return". We all know that he didn't as he felt that his instinctive reactions were no longer what they had been prior to the accident, so he chose to retire. Later he admitted that he had maybe tried to return too early and that when he tested he wasn't fully recovered.

I like Chris above, saw him race in the BTCC driving the Audi but it was a long time afterwards and he did it more as a bit of fun and a good promotion for Audi.

So for me Stirling Moss was a hugely influential person in motor sport not only for me personally but for everyone in the sport itself. I had forgotten how big a fan I was back in those far off days, ne was after all known in the Uk as "Mr Motor Racing". My lasting memory has to be Stirling in the mighty green Vanwall.

[robmarsh]

My first memory of Stirling Moss was hearing about his accident on the news back in Rhodesia as it was then. I had only just realised that motor racing was a thing but didn't start following it seriously until 1968. It was aeroplanes, aeroplanes and aeroplanes for me back then.

I must admit that like Jamie and Chris, Stirling Moss was not one of my heroes, probably because of timing, though I have a lot of respect for his ability and skill. I had one book on him but did not find it very inspiring, maybe the definitive one has been written yet.

Chris I see you and me were born in that most classic of years, 1955.

[charleselan]

For those looking at a good book on Stirling Moss I can thoroughly recommend a book that was first published in the late 1980's "Stirling Moss - My Cars, My Career" by Stirling and Doug Nye. An absolutely superb book with great insightful text and lovely photos from throughout his glittering career.

[Carl]

One amazing achievement of Stirling Moss happened at Monaco during practice in the late 50s/early 60s when he agreed to drive a private entrant's car for a lap or two in the hope he could advise the owner/driver how to improve his car. I can't recall if he advised any changes, but what remains astounding is that, in one or two laps, Moss bettered the driver's previous best in his own car by five or seven seconds!

Another Moss moment, also during practice in Monte Carlo, occurred when he and another driver stopped politely as practice was beginning to allow two Monegasque grande dames to cross the street, one of whom asked why they couldn't practice somewhere else, an entirely reasonable question from their perspective that left the drivers dumbfounded.

[René]

Great stories guys. He really was an exceptional racer and man.

JC, thanks for the book tip, alrready ordered!

[chrisb]

that was the Scarab Carl, and although Stirling was considerably quicker that Lance he was still 5 seconds off his own time, but beautiful looking cars and a splendid colour scheme

I will also buy that book John,

among the many things overlooked about Stirling was that basically he was the first professional driver, and loved his comment about after he retired he had to find a job, the other one was that he won the Targa Flora in 1955 as well - but with Pete this time in the Merc, something very very special

[charleselan]

You will not regret the purchase René and Chris, it is an excellent book. I spent a while yesterday re-reading bits of it after taking it off the shelf for the pictures. Some great bits in it where Stirling reflects on certain events of the past. His recollections of that terrible accident at Spa in 1960 which hospitalised him for some time that season are almost disturbing in current times.

His Lotus 18 shed a rear wheel in the middle of the fearsome Burnenville Corner and as the car careered up a bank he was thrown from  the car onto the bank itself. He then recollects being on his hands and knees being unable to breath, this along with a severe blow to the head resulted in him temporarily loosing his sight and the resultant fear he had in those moments; truly frightening. How in hells name he ever got back into a car after that, let alone a Lotus 18 which he was very sceptical about regarding its strength and integrity I will never be able to appreciate.

The fact that he came back later that season and was as quick as ever just sums up his amazing character and competitive instinct.

Another thing he talks about is the difference between the Lotus 18 and the Cooper T83. The Cooper was much more forgiving and I have the feeling it was one of his favourite cars, whereas the Lotus was demanding to get the best from but ultimately a quicker car in the hands of someone who could extract that last bit. This he says was common with Lotus cars and would account for the fact that he and Jim Clark were probably the only drivers who could get the best from them in those days.

I also viewed S*YF1's tribute to Stirling on YT last evening, which was quite good especially the bits in which the great man spoke himself. One great bit was about him following Fangio in 1955 and the fact that El Maestro would never ever do anything improper when being followed. Whereas Stirling said following Jack Brabham was not pleasant as Black Jack would throw every bit of (to use Stirlings words) "crap" at the edge of the track at a following driver. Something confirmed by Chris Amon in 1967 who spent quite a lot of races stuck behind the triple Aussie WC.

Enjoy the book guys when you get it, it is excellent.

[mikael]

Stirling Moss (7) and Jack Brabham (1) at the Danish Grand Prix 1961 at Roskilde Ring (by Copenhagen) - a non-championship race (so perhaps not a true grand prix, even thought it was called that).

Stirling Moss at the same event, at Roskilde Ring, 1961.

Winner of the Danish Grand Prix, Roskilde Ring, 1961. 

Program cover.

[charleselan]

Some very good extra information there Mikael. On that occasion Stirling driving the UDT Laystall Lotus 18/21 as opposed to his regular Rob Walker run car. I have not really read any material on this but the Lotus 18/21 was used by both the walker and Laystall teams in 1961 and early 1962. Who produced this special bodywork for the cars and any slight chassis modifications is an unknown to me at this moment.

I believe the reason Stirling drove in non championship races for UDT Laystall was down to his manager Ken Gregory being involved with the team. Later in 1962 his career ending accident at Goodwood was in the 18/21 converted to take the Climax V8 engine and entered by UDT Laystall however in other non championship races like the Brussels GP he drove a similar (or same) car for Rob Walker.

Apparently the reason they had to use this updated Lotus 18 was that Colin Chapman refused to allow Stirling to have the latest Lotus 21 in 1961. Not sure whether that was due to him not wishing to give Stirling a better opportunity for beating the factory cars, or that he was pressured by conflicting fuel sponsors.

Interestingly the program for the Roskilde meeting features a photo of Harry Schell driving the factory BRM in 1959, something we were in discussion about elsewhere.

[Carl]

Several have commented that, while convinced of his great talent, they never really embraced the person of Stirling Moss. I feel the same way and believe it's because of an apparent underlying self-conceit that formed his character. He was simply the best and his remarkable logic may have viewed any pretense of modesty as superfluous.

[charleselan]

I would suggest that he was a man of his time Carl, and that it was also more a case of self assuredness. He was an absolute gentleman according to those who knew him or met him.

I have a feeling that he was a bit like Lewis Hamilton in some respects as they shared many similarities. I did not take to Lewis, and still have reservations about some of his attitudes, but in recent times have warmed to him far more as a person. His openness regarding the folly of trying to run the Australian GP was praiseworthy and mature, as are his concerns about animals and their welfare as are his feelings about the world today.

Stirling exuded self confidence but was also reverential towards Fangio, not a similarity shared by Lewis with regard to Alonso. Mind you Alonso is no Fangio, no matter what he may think, or his doting members of the UK motoring press may think.

[chrisb]

Another whose word was his bond, and interesting the earlier comment about Black Jack, who revered Stirling but not Jimmy, certainly when Jack and Stirling shared an Aston [Nurburgring?] Stirling, if memory is correct was substantially quicker than Jack, incidentally another to make comment about Jack was JYS, and the 'habit' of drifting into the dirt and kicking up all kinds of everything

certainly from 1957/8 to 1961/2 Stirling was number one, and like so many greats you just have to look at how their competitors view them, and Stirling was viewed as number one,