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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 13:55:01 GMT
It’s all right Rene’, I understand the disappointment. Max cannot carry on blocking everybody who tries to overtake him – Kimi at Spa, Vettel in Mexico, now – and see red every time he sees Ricciardo. The fastest driver is not necessarily the best. He should put this sentence at the top of his bed as reminder (paraphrasing my university prof of physics). Else Von Brauchitsch would have been a better driver than Caracciola every day, and he wasn’t, not even for five minutes of all his life!
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Post by René on Apr 30, 2018 15:42:49 GMT
It’s all right Rene’, I understand the disappointment. Max cannot carry on blocking everybody who tries to overtake him – Kimi at Spa, Vettel in Mexico, now – and see red every time he sees Ricciardo. The fastest driver is not necessarily the best. He should put this sentence at the top of his bed as reminder (paraphrasing my university prof of physics). Else Von Brauchitsch would have been a better driver than Caracciola every day, and he wasn’t, not even for five minutes of all his life!
My disappointment was mainly with Ferrari losing (again) the race because of that safety car. As for Max and Danny, I actually prefer Daniel as a person and as a more mature racer. I have not always been a fan of his overtaking style though. Coming from as far as he often does only worked because the other driver gave him room. Max does not give room and Daniel should have known that so in that respect it wasn't a clever move of him either. But anyway, if Max continues this way his market share will fall as fast as his fame rose.
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Post by Carl on Apr 30, 2018 16:17:57 GMT
Will we see another chaotic race like last year? And will Mercedes finally win a race in 2018 and can Max have a clean race at last? The long straight should suit the Mercs and the Ferraris but it was Danny who won last time out. Enough to look forward to. Rene, Yes to chaos, to Mercedes winning and to doubt about young Max. Impressive foresight! Cheers, Carl
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Post by charleselan on Apr 30, 2018 17:28:40 GMT
Something to consider gentlemen.
If that had been Danill Kvyat he would have been benched by now, but such is Marko's overbearing influence that would not even be considered. Red Bull should retire the bitter Marko without delay, but from this observers eye he and he alone is responsible for the problems within that team. Horner is just a political being and neither does he have the b*lls to stand up to the guy.
Carlos Sainz is the guy who should have been promoted to the "main team" and not young Max, both would have gained from that. Max unfortunately was already being lauded as the new Senna by far too many within the paddock, big mistake, the lad needed a proper grounding in less limelight.
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Post by René on Apr 30, 2018 18:03:34 GMT
Will we see another chaotic race like last year? And will Mercedes finally win a race in 2018 and can Max have a clean race at last? The long straight should suit the Mercs and the Ferraris but it was Danny who won last time out. Enough to look forward to. Rene, Yes to chaos, to Mercedes winning and to doubt about young Max. Impressive foresight! Cheers, Carl Last week I gave my chrystal ball an extra polish so I guess it helped!
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Post by René on Apr 30, 2018 18:17:33 GMT
Something to consider gentlemen. If that had been Danill Kvyat he would have been benched by now, but such is Marko's overbearing influence that would not even be considered. Red Bull should retire the bitter Marko without delay, but from this observers eye he and he alone is responsible for the problems within that team. Horner is just a political being and neither does he have the b*lls to stand up to the guy. Carlos Sainz is the guy who should have been promoted to the "main team" and not young Max, both would have gained from that. Max unfortunately was already being lauded as the new Senna by far too many within the paddock, big mistake, the lad needed a proper grounding in less limelight. Good points. Red Bull has invested so heavily in Verstappen there's no way they are going to let him fall now. In that sense, it was quite convenient that Daniel did not make one of his best moves. Now they could at least blame them both. And maybe Max was promoted too fast. But despite the bad start to this season, we must not forget the boy has already three victories to his name and he beat Ricciardo 14-6 in qualifying last year. He has the ability, just needs to grow up. But I sincerely hope it's not a charachter flaw, like his dad.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 21:37:04 GMT
Something to consider gentlemen. If that had been Danill Kvyat he would have been benched by now, the lad needed a proper grounding in less limelight. Hi Charles elan, I had been thinking the same thing, even after China. Kyvat got himself a demotion to Toro Rosso for a similar run of performances - including hitting Vettel (twice!). At the time I thought that Red Bull were harsh on Kyvat, and seemed to be out to destroy his self confidence (it took them a few attempts but they eventually did). Maybe Red Bull have improved their human management practices, and are helping 'young Max' grow as a person and become a better driver, rather than slam dunking him like they did Kyvat.
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Post by Carl on Apr 30, 2018 22:11:24 GMT
Most at fault for Red Bull's systemic derangement is Helmut Marko, whose wretched demeanor makes Niki Lauda look like a cruise ship social director. I doubt that Stephen King in his foulest mood could adequately describe the atmosphere in a meeting of Red Bull's top two.
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Post by chrisb on May 1, 2018 4:46:49 GMT
if you look at RB's history of man-management it does look pretty awful, now whilst I have never been a great fan of theirs, and remember a painful 'discussion' on MS forum about this topic, but they have always struck me as to what I would describe as 'flavour of the month' people and going back before Vettel, with Buemi or Scott, and Bourdais - they are pretty ruthless when 'the next best thing' arrives of dismissing the 'previous big thing' - or maybe they are very good at spotting winners?
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2018 6:51:05 GMT
if you look at RB's history of man-management it does look pretty awful, now whilst I have never been a great fan of theirs, and remember a painful 'discussion' on MS forum about this topic, but they have always struck me as to what I would describe as 'flavour of the month' people and going back before Vettel, with Buemi or Scott, and Bourdais - they are pretty ruthless when 'the next best thing' arrives of dismissing the 'previous big thing' - or maybe they are very good at spotting winners? Less charitably, you could say they're very good at spotting potential winners, but not so good at converting them into F1 winners. The list of RBR junior drivers who have been dropped and gone on the win world championships in other series is quite long. Buemi - went on to win WEC LMP1 and Formula E World championships, Hartley - went on to win Two WEC LMP1 world championships, and Le Mans Vergne - been around the blocks, now leading the current Formula E championship. Speed - hummmmmm, is now cleaning up in Global Rally Cross, Three (Golbal) Championships. However, the list of RBR junior drivers who have been dropped and didn't go on to great things is far longer, so you could also argue they're actually not that good at spotting potential winners either.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2018 7:29:07 GMT
I haven't followed too closely over the years, but it seems that at least Kvyat and Vergne were both very good and deserved another opportunity elsewhere.
While Grosjean, on the other end, seems like a finished driver. Without confidence, F1 is a unforgiving environment.
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Post by charleselan on May 3, 2018 8:35:38 GMT
Last evening I viewed some of the "Motorsport Show" on motorsport.tv with Peter Windsor & media man Matt Bishop, they were reviewing the Baku F1 race.To begin with let me say that our discussions and analysis on here are greatly superior in all respects, far more insightful and without any prejudice.
After the expected and predictable comments about various drivers performances it got to the Red Bull boys collision. According to both it was a "racing incident"; well aren't they all no matter if one or more driver has brain fade, they are racing for goodness sake. Windsor opined that it was down to DRS and the big closing speed created by that idiotic system. Bishop thought that he would be funny and made big play on those like Niki Lauda who apportioned a percentage of guilt; jeez nothing worse than some kind of smart ar*e.
There was no mention of Max's moves, nor was there any reference to Daniel's dive bombing overtakes and the possible, and actual consequences of both. This gives me no other alternative than to believe that all of these Media types are towing a party line, or are just plain scared to make any critical comment for whatever reason.
A very poor show; at least Jenks would have given a straight up verdict, rightly or wrongly.
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Post by robmarsh on May 3, 2018 14:21:35 GMT
Last evening I viewed some of the "Motorsport Show" on motorsport.tv with Peter Windsor & media man Matt Bishop, they were reviewing the Baku F1 race.To begin with let me say that our discussions and analysis on here are greatly superior in all respects, far more insightful and without any prejudice. After the expected and predictable comments about various drivers performances it got to the Red Bull boys collision. According to both it was a "racing incident"; well aren't they all no matter if one or more driver has brain fade, they are racing for goodness sake. Windsor opined that it was down to DRS and the big closing speed created by that idiotic system. Bishop thought that he would be funny and made big play on those like Niki Lauda who apportioned a percentage of guilt; jeez nothing worse than some kind of smart ar*e. There was no mention of Max's moves, nor was there any reference to Daniel's dive bombing overtakes and the possible, and actual consequences of both. This gives me no other alternative than to believe that all of these Media types are towing a party line, or are just plain scared to make any critical comment for whatever reason. A very poor show; at least Jenks would have given a straight up verdict, rightly or wrongly. I think Jenks would have been rather critical of WMD's weaving. Not sure what he would have made of Danny Ric's dive bombing. I think he may have applauded SV for having a go but criticised him for running out of talent. I do think that Jenks would have been very critical of DRS and halos.
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Post by chrisb on May 3, 2018 19:48:25 GMT
John, Rob et al Jenks , critical? i think condemning and ordering arrests - followed by summary executions is perhaps more akin to his sentiments,
John, there must be a reason for this corporate cop out, if it is so straightforward to our untinted eyes then why Peter Windsor of all people doesn't see it,
Danny to me is a driver that gives you a choice if he is overtaking you, either you leave that space alone or we crash, Max is more "this is my team-mate, i don't care, he will not pass"
does everyone on this forum dislike DRS? I did like the older kinetic energy thingy as that made sense and that as far as i can see is pure renewable energy that would be great in road cars, i would love that, but, why did they get rid of it??
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Post by robmarsh on May 4, 2018 6:53:52 GMT
Chrisb I like watching DRS work eg the flap opening on the straights because that takes me back to the original thinking on wings by Jim Hall. I think it should be available at any time, to any driver, when he wants it. In it's current format it is unfair to the driver who doesn't have it and therefore to me it is a contrived way to make racing "exciting" and I hate that because it goes against the purity of the sport. The same applies to making drivers use two different compounds, thus enforcing a pit stop.
You don't need passing to make a race exciting, you need a sense of the unknown eg is the leader going to break down or will his tyres go off, or will he get held up by back markers or run out of fuel, or can he defend against a faster car.All of those unknowns have largely been removed from current F1 so they use band aids like DRS and forced pit stops to try and fix it thus attacking the purity of the sport.
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