Mexican F1 Grand Prix

[René]

Will Lewis seal the Championship in the land of the Rodriguez brothers? And can Ferrari save its honour with a convincing victory (a nice birthday present for Rob ). Or will Max have to leave the green room once again after the race?

[chrisb]

sadly this truncated circuit is not what it once was, and in the UK we will only get - funny enough truncated highlights - mainly it has to be said of meaningless talk that borders on the jingoistic, wish they would truncate that! I would like to see Daniel win but suspect that the roll Lewis is on, he will be very difficult to beat,

Incidentally given how well Sainz drove at Austin and without knowing if the Renault was updated or not, what does that say of Palmer?

Forgive my asking but do we know when Williams will make their decision? or even, how the testing went?

[mikael]

In the USGP thread Rob wrote, "Lewis Hamilton is in superb form at the moment - in fact he reminds me of Senna in 1990 and 1991 where one expected him to win unless something untoward happened."

I agree with this assessment and have given LH my vote yet again for the Mexican GP.

[René]

Oct 25, 2017 4:32:41 GMT chrisb said:

sadly this truncated circuit is not what it once was

Chris, I agree regarding the circuit. They have ruined many parts of the track, in particular the Peraltada which was an awesome corner and a real challenge. Tilke argued there was no way to save the corner because of the stricter FIA regs to create enough run-off. But I don't buy that. They had the plan to run the track through the baseball stadium all along so they sacrificed the Peraltada. Racing sacrilege.

In honour of that once great corner I have changed the site banner with a photo of Mansell who had just passed Berger in the 1990 Mexican Grand Prix on the outside of the Peraltada. That was one of the greatest passes I have ever seen, a goosebump moment and remarkable driving abilities.

That Mexican Grand Prix was a fantastic race and I remember it very well. I watched it together with my father who was a Alain Prost fan so 1990 was the first year we both cheered for the same guy (but he is always happy for me when a Ferrari wins ;-). The Ferrari's started way back but gradually made their way forward to eventually make it a historic 1-2. Unforgettable. I remember my mum storming in the room asking if all was well but it was just my dad and me cheering for what we had just witnessed!

[René]

Oct 25, 2017 11:35:12 GMT mikael said:

In the USGP thread Rob wrote, "Lewis Hamilton is in superb form at the moment - in fact he reminds me of Senna in 1990 and 1991 where one expected him to win unless something untoward happened."

I agree with this assessment and have given LH my vote yet again for the Mexican GP.

Hi Mikael,

I have been wanting to ask you for a while but never did; what is your view, as a Dane, on the Magnussen family, Kevin and Jan? It was noticeable at Spa last summer how many Danes where there with flags and t-shirts to support Kevin. He has been receiving some criticism recently though for making contact with others and to be honest, I can't see him making a breakthrough now with the likes of Ocon and Sainz doing so well.

As for Jan, I remember when he was still in the lower formulae and there was this buzz about a possible new super talent. He seemed magic but eventually did not succeed in the big league.

I would be interested in your view, as a Dane.

[charleselan]

I had the privilege of seeing Jan drive many times in his formative career in the UK both Formula Ford and F3. He had all the hallmarks of being something special; totally dominating the Formula Ford Festival meeting in 1992 against a top quality field. He then went on to totally dominate the 1994 British F3 Championship, just check out the stats to see who he reigned over that year, his team mate at Paul Stewart Racing was non other than Dario Franchitti. 

He really should have been outstanding in F1 but did not handle the chance properly according those who know; but he is still going strong and has been for years in the Corvette's. I would say much more naturally talented than Kevin, a bit like Gilles and Jacques.

Just seen a photo of him from recent times, he would pass for a younger David Gilmore ex of Pink Floyd!!

[chrisb]

I also saw Jan drive many a race in his formative years and remember all the hype that went with him and let's be honest it was merited, but as you say Charles he struggled to adapt, what i'd also heard maybe not correct he hadn't been willing to put in the effort,

but this is prompting a question chaps, going back to Dave Walker and Team Lotus there has been many a F3 star who hasn't cut it in F1, Sato and was it Van de Merwe? who looked spectacular but really didn't make it, although was pleased to hear Sato won the Indy500, why is that?

[mikael]

René,
unlike John Charles and Chris, I have never had the privilege to see Jan Magnussen race "live", so I can only tell about my impressions from his appearances on Danish television, etc. But we (e.g. my father, myself -- and many other Danes, I'm sure) were terribly disappointed when he was sacked by Stewart GP in '98. The Stewart car was marred with problems, and Jan was still quite inexperienced in F1. We had heard about his a bit too easygoing manners, etc., but still, we thought he would be OK once the problems with the car were ironed out, and he could show what he was capable of. He had, after all, been hailed as the most talented driver since Ayrton Senna, by none less than Jackie Stewart.

But of course, he was probably not very useful in helping with the development of the car. When there were issues (with the car) it is said that he was at a loss regarding what to suggest to the technicians and engineers.

At TV-interviews at the time, I recall he came across as a bit rough and "streetwise" -- but he has matured a lot since then; he now makes a very good appearance (on TV). (In contrast, Tom Kristensen always appeared as a thoughtful and eloquent person. He would have been a great success in F1 if he had had Jan's raw talent.)

As to Kevin, I agree with JC in that he appears to have less natural talent; on the other hand, he appears to be a much better organized person. Recently, a commenter at the Motor Sport Online forum stated that Kevin's career somehow is starting to resemble that of his father. I don't know, but there might be some truth in that statement. In any case, it seems as if Kevin is becoming more and more rough; more and more rough in his driving, more and more rough in his way of speaking. It's not a good development. Now, he seems rather far away from the initial promise by his dream debut with McLaren.

[charleselan]

Mikael,

I think you have made a very good summation of the two Magnussen's. Did not Jackie Stewart take Jan to Oulton Park for some driver coaching as he felt that he wasn't getting certain parts of his driving technique right, or something like that. I did hear it mention at the time that Jan also liked to "party" a bit too much and wasn't the dedicated F1 driver he should have been.

Your comments about Kevin seem pretty accurate to me, I feel that he is carrying a big "chip" on his shoulder from being dropped by McLaren after what was a pretty good first season. His very uncompromising driving these days is earning him little friends among his fellow drivers, which is fine in some respects as it is a cut throat business, however there comes a time that we all need allies. However he is pushing the highly regarded (particularly by Mark Hughes) Roman Grosjean very hard at Haas and his "feisty" style is liked by the team.

The Danes have been a great nation in motorcycle Speedway for decades, and some have, and are, very uncompromising in their style, none more so than Nicki Pedersen the multiple World Champion who loves to be the "bad boy of speedway". Nicki is the Senna of Speedway in that he takes no prisoners and just does not care about other riders.

As you mention Tom Kristensen is a real gent and an incredibly accomplished driver who in recent years has lit up the Goodwood Revival with some stunning displays of driving; a sad loss to F1 in the past undoubtably.

[charleselan]

Chris,

With regard to David Walker and his failure not to make the grade in F!, that was indeed a strange one. He dominated F3 for Gold Leaf Team Lotus and then  made a few appearances in the Lotus 56B turbine car in 1971 before graduating to the JPS Team Lotus with the 72D in 1972. He should by rights have had a very good year backing up the dominant Emerson but was absolutely nowhere.

Without wishing to get anecdotal I remember talking with an older enthusiast at the time or shortly afterwards and he said to me that the reason Dave Walker did not cut it in F1 that year was because of his liking for alcoholic beverages. It may be true, may be not, but he just disappeared after that season which is pretty unusual to say the least.

JC

[René]

Mikael,

Thank you for your detailed answer. An interesting read, also with regards to Tom Kristensen who seems like a completely different character compared to the Magnussens.

Jan really seems like a lost talent to F1 but on the other hand, to be successful in Formula 1 there is more needed than only raw driving talent. We have seen it before as already mentioned by Chris and John Charles. Also Max's father Jos was seen as the next big thing when he dominated F3. His career in F1 was much longer than Jan's career but he never reached the level that was predicted for him. I think both Jan and Jos probably lacked a touch of Tom to be really successful.

As for Kevin, personally I think it is going to be difficult with so much talent around now. Also the fact he raced for McLaren and then had to step down to a midfield team doesn't help. And yes, McLaren was not very competitive at the time but the general perception is not good. Perez had the same experience and there were more in the past. Remember Capellli at Ferrari? Once you reach the top you have to stay there.

[chrisb]

I was always a fan of Tom, felt the guy was just sheer class and probably, the best I ever saw in a Le Mans type car, I did wonder how he would have gone in a 956, brilliantly I suspect,

The thing for Jan for me was when he was at his peak I wondered if he was in the right era, bit like Innes Ireland who I really felt was more suited to the 50's and possibly Kimi to the 70's, was Jan a more 60's child?

I was never convinced by Capelli, he was very good in the March, was it France? but felt that Mauricio was a better driver, not that sure as memory isn't that clear and MotoGP QP has started

[mikael]

Oct 26, 2017 17:24:17 GMT René said:

As for Kevin, personally I think it is going to be difficult with so much talent around now.

René,

yes, there's certainly no shortage of talent in F1. That's one thing that makes F1 so fascinating. To say, for example, that a driver was outstanding in some sub-F1 category; well, any one of those 20+ drivers was. Any one of them has been World champion, European champion, or something equivalent before F1. The average level is just unbelievable.

> Once you reach the top you have to stay there.

Yes, what really matters for a young driver, it seems, is to make sure that he never stagnates, but always improves; that he always goes better, any time out. It seems that drivers like Sainz and Ocon, whom you point out, and not to forget: Verstappen, manages to do that. As to Kevin, his case is not so clear ...

[mikael]

Oct 26, 2017 11:26:18 GMT charleselan said:

Did not Jackie Stewart take Jan to Oulton Park for some driver coaching as he felt that he wasn't getting certain parts of his driving technique right, or something like that.

JC,

yes I recall having heard that too. There was some talk about that the two years ('95, '96) Jan spent in Touring Cars had taught him some bad habits that somehow had damaged the fast, flowing style he had displayed earlier in single seaters. It might have been such bad habits that Jackie Stewart had in mind to "iron out". But Jan interpreted this not as a favor but rather as a humiliation or even as a "punishment".

Yeah, it was a pity that things went as they did ...

As to speedway, I must admit that I have not really kept myself up-to-date in now many year. But it's interesting to muse on how big an influence Ole Olsen (World Champion '71, '75, '78) have had. He single-handedly put Denmark on the "Speedway World map", and it is basically thanks to him alone that one new generation after another of good riders have appeared since then. By the way, I think he has a personality that is quite similar to that of Tom Kristensen (or maybe, rather, vice versa). I recall that he always answered questions (on TV) as careful and polite as possible, also when it was apparent to even a child (as I was then) that the question was a bit silly.

[René]

Oct 28, 2017 6:14:07 GMT chrisb said:

I was never convinced by Capelli, he was very good in the March, was it France? but felt that Mauricio was a better driver, not that sure as memory isn't that clear and MotoGP QP has started

Chris, Capelli is maybe not the best example. The point was more that it can harm your F1 career if you have the chance to race for one of the big teams early in your career and are not successful right away, regardless if that team is competitive or not. The chance is no other big team will want you anymore.