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Post by mikael on Nov 18, 2017 13:59:23 GMT
On Jackie Stewart's assessment of René Arnoux
I have been fond of "Driving Techniques"-kind of books ever since I was able to read such books (in English). I have, I must admit, bought such books uncritically through the years - and I might have acquired a few too many. (Yes, I know one cannot learn to drive merely by reading about it, just as one cannot learn to play the piano merely by listening to piano music - yet I enjoy to read about how the masters do their job). The first of its kind, Piero Tafuffi's "The Techniques of Motor Racing" still, in my opinion, stands head and shoulders above the rest, in spite of its age (it's from 1958). Other than this one, my favorites are: Niki Lauda's "The Art and Science of Grand Prix Driving" (1977), Jackie Stewart's "Principle of Performance Driving" (1986), Alain Prost's "Competition Driving" (1990), and Ayrton Senna's "Principles of Race Driving" (1993).
In Jackie Stewart's book, he starts out by giving, in his Chapter 1, an assessment of other racing drivers, past and present (anno 1986), including such drivers as Fangio, Rindt, Villeneuve, and Arnoux.
About the latter (Arnoux) he writes: "René Arnoux always struck me as having very nervous eyes which were always darting round the place, rather like his driving style, perhaps. He gives the impression of being tense and overwound, not as relaxed as he should be to produce a fluid, measured performance behind the wheel. His much publicised move from Renault to Ferrari produced several Grand Prix wins but René has never quite scaled the heights suggested by his early career achievements."
Wauw! Quite a message to state - and not just in a magazine that might be lost and forgotten, but in a neatly bound hardcover book that is meant to be kept - and this at a time (1986) where Arnoux was still active in F1, working very hard to do well ...
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Post by René on Nov 18, 2017 18:11:32 GMT
I always liked René Arnoux. He was a real character, a wild man sometimes, in and out of the car. But on his day he could be unbeatable, very fast. His best years in F1 were 1979-1983, after that he seemed to fade away. Certainly after his abrupt Ferrari exit early 1985. He wasn't dedicated like Stewart or Prost for instance but still a very good driver.
I remember seeing him up close at the Renault World Series at Spa 2010. There were many historic Renault racers on display in the paddock and René was having some fun with a pre war oldtimer, together with Jean Ragnotti. They were like little children! Really funny. I think the man just enjoyes life.
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Post by Carl on Nov 18, 2017 18:54:29 GMT
Just some "random thoughts" on the driver's seating positions, upon seeing this beautiful banner image. It's interesting to muse on how the typical seating position has changed back and forth over the years. First, a very upright position, almost like in a normal road car, in the 1950's. This morphed into a lying-deep-down position, as in a bathtub, in the cigar-shaped cars of the 1960's. In 1970's, back to a more upright seating position, and even more so in the 1980's, when the drivers came to be sitting high up front, near to the front wheels (as in the banner image). In the low-slung cars of the 1990's the seating position came down again, back to the style of the 1960's. Finally, the high noses that appeared around 2000 demanded that the driver have their legs up high, resulting in maybe the most peculiar seating position yet ... Mikael, Your powers of observation are quite remarkable. There have been a few outliers from the prevailing position. Rene Arnoux always seemed to lean slightly forward rather than sit fully reclined. Three time World Champ Jack Brabham also preferred a slight lean toward the steering wheel. I always supposed his doing so gave more sense of control. Speaking only for myself, if given a chance to drive a 600 kg. formula car having 850 bhp, I would want to be sitting upright! Cheers, Carl |
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Post by mikael on Nov 19, 2017 0:20:32 GMT
I always liked René Arnoux. He was a real character, a wild man sometimes, in and out of the car. But on his day he could be unbeatable, very fast. His best years in F1 were 1979-1983, after that he seemed to fade away. Certainly after his abrupt Ferrari exit early 1985. He wasn't dedicated like Stewart or Prost for instance but still a very good driver.
René, a very nice assessment. Yes, my point, which I didn't make too clear, was that I think that Stewart's assessment was far too harsh. To be good enough to earn a place at Ferrari, at the time when "il Commendatore" was still here - that alone was a real achievement.
Anyway, I find Stewart's text interesting in the sense that it showcases well just how much of a cut-throat business F1 is. Fall off a bit and the knives are out -- immediately!
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Post by chrisb on Nov 19, 2017 9:02:01 GMT
mikael, i was always intrigued how different drivers positions were, what influenced them and how they perfected their style to suit,
Farina for instance had this 'very laid back' almost languid style that made things look effortless, Stirling, ever the observant one saw this and made no bones about it, copied it, which is something Nigel Roebuck and I would argue about Jimmy and Stirling, my argument that Jimmy was the better because he was the more natural driving position that was his own and Nigel was having none of it,
I always liked Rene but I always felt he was much more suited to an 'underdog' role and his style was more akin to a rally drivers style, all hustle and bustle, with a dash of Jean Behra thrown in without the temper, but someone totally unsuited to any political arena's. I was at Silverstone whilst he was leading in the Renault when he broke down and Clay [ah there was someone special] in the William overtook him, really felt for Rene that day
Carl, having driven one it's much easier being laid back, maybe not very quick - actually very slow but...but Jack's style was interesting, very sideways and as Chris Amon testified quite wide at times, I don't think Jackie was very complimentary about Jack either, saying that Jack always seemed to forget to change gear-
pros for Jack 3 times WDC and cons 1967 Italian GP and 1970 Monaco, but not a bad season to end on and he survived to a ripe old age!
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Post by Carl on Nov 20, 2017 21:59:21 GMT
Great Banner, Rene!
There may never be another Stirling Moss or a more beautiful front engine Grand Prix car than the Vanwall, a masterpiece from Colin Chapman and Mike Costin. The pieces de resistance were soon provided by the masterwork of Moss and Tony Brooks.
This car and both drivers deserved to be champions.
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Post by René on Nov 21, 2017 10:45:22 GMT
Great Banner, Rene! There may never be another Stirling Moss or a more beautiful front engine Grand Prix car than the Vanwall, a masterpiece from Colin Chapman and Mike Costin. The pieces de resistance were soon provided by the masterwork of Moss and Tony Brooks. This car and both drivers deserved to be champions. Agreed Carl, it was time to put Stirling on top.  |
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Post by chrisb on Nov 22, 2017 21:30:39 GMT
wonderful banner Rene, one thing that intrigued me about the Vanwall and the early Loti was Stirling describing them as 'not easy to drive' whereas the Cooper and Maserati were much more 'user friendly' - but from the 50's the Vanwall was my favourite - it just looked mean and purposeful, and was it quick - a lovely car
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Post by charleselan on Nov 23, 2017 16:04:15 GMT
What a beautiful banner René, featuring two of the greatest icons of motor sport. One of the all time great drivers and cars. I am certain that Vanwall's will always hold a certain degree of favouritism for gentlemen of a certain age who were small boys in the 1950's. No doubt these guys will remember their Dinky and Corgi Vanwall models  .
For me there is something so romantic about the front engined grand prix car, or as my other half would say they "look like real cars"!
Chris I think that Tony Brooks also mentioned that the Vanwall was tricky to drive, probably the influence of Colin Chapman in the chassis design played a part. Lotus cars were always demanding and it took someone really special to get the best out of them in the early days, Jim and Stirling being the men for the job.
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Post by chrisb on Nov 23, 2017 20:26:57 GMT
Charles, what was also magical was the sound! there was something evocative about those front engined cars that sang, real personalities, not too much training especially the marvellous pampas bull, but terrible in its expense, One of the reasons Pete Collins was my favourite of the 50's and I still think dreadfully underrated was of course Monza 1956 a deadly romantic era
Stirling I seem to remember identified the Lotus as something you had to thread carefully, a precision instrument whereas especially the Cooper was friendly, I never knew what Stuart Lewis-Evans thought of the Vanwall and cannot find any interviews - was he the first Welsh GP driver I wonder?
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Post by René on Nov 23, 2017 23:25:29 GMT
I am certain that Vanwall's will always hold a certain degree of favouritism for gentlemen of a certain age who were small boys in the 1950's. No doubt these guys will remember their Dinky and Corgi Vanwall models . That goes for all of us I guess. The cars and drivers of the time you fell in love with the sport will always be special and remembered dearly. For me it's the mid seventies to early eighties. And Polistil and Bburago models of a Ferrari, JPS Lotus or Tyrrell six wheeler...  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2017 11:33:45 GMT
I am certain that Vanwall's will always hold a certain degree of favouritism for gentlemen of a certain age who were small boys in the 1950's. No doubt these guys will remember their Dinky and Corgi Vanwall models . That goes for all of us I guess. The cars and drivers of the time you fell in love with the sport will always be special and remembered dearly. For me it's the mid seventies to early eighties. And Polistil and Bburago models of a Ferrari, JPS Lotus or Tyrrell six wheeler... I had the Bburago Tyrrell six wheel, so big! |
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Post by charleselan on Nov 24, 2017 17:08:59 GMT
The new banner is a great touch René, after all this talk of Alfa Romeo being brought back. However this is a real Alfa and not a rebadged Ferrari and gets my vote. Even more so the driver, the very underrated Bruno "Panda" Giacomelli a guy who should if the dice had fallen better would have won tons of Grand Prix.
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Post by chrisb on Nov 24, 2017 17:24:27 GMT
Charles, surely you mean "jack'o'mally" ?
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Post by Jamie on Nov 24, 2017 20:30:35 GMT
Thanks for this banner image Rene.......no surprise that I love this one. The Alfa 177 was an odd looking beast but I still love it!
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