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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 14:40:51 GMT
i have always hesitated buying the lost generation for some reason, there is a such a poignant sadness to these three tragedies and whilst I felt Roger and Tom capable of winning a GP I could never see them as Champs, whereas i felt Tony was destined and robbed by a foul night. That is interesting, I had the same feeling - although I didn't really know Williamson - but have read that Brise had serious talent. He lapped Alan Jones on equal cars in F1...
As you can imagine, I have both 'The Lost Generation' and 'Mon Ami Mate', both recommended.
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Post by charleselan on Feb 14, 2018 18:19:37 GMT
I would support those views about "Mon Ami Mate" which is an excellent book. I bought it soon after release from Chaters at the first Silverstone Historic Festival meeting and it was signed by Chris Nixon. I spent many evenings sat at the dining room table reading chapter after chapter, it really is enthralling.
While thinking about matters I may purchase Prullers book on Jochen as a pre-owned copy initially, can always get a mint new copy later of course. Pruller knew Jochen well which gives him a big edge for me over Tremayne, and of course it is of the period so the feel should be right.
Like Rob I can recall exactly what I was doing when the news broke of Jimmy and Jochen's passing. Ronnie also. My mother told me later that she had never seen me look the way I did upon hearing Jim had died. The shock of hearing that Jochen has been killed was equally traumatic. I had just set off in my "souped up" Ford Anglia from home to visit my nearby town and had travelled no more than half a kilometre. The old car radio was on with the then great BBC Radio1 blasting out, and then came the news Jochen Rindt was dead. I turned the car around and went home in total disbelief, the day jaundiced for ever.
Hard to believe that motor racing was like that, when one follows it today. Thankfully young fans do not have to experience such devastating and brutal losses as we did.
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Post by Jamie on Feb 14, 2018 20:30:22 GMT
Jamie, did you get your ~Pete Lyon's book on can-am? was it called Can-Am photo history? - I ask as I have a copy Hi Chris, Yes I did, although its simply titled 'Can-Am' rather than Can-Am Photo History. I am tempted by the photo history book as well though, the Can-Am bread are just so visually diverse and impressive.
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Post by chrisb on Feb 15, 2018 6:40:36 GMT
Hi Charles, the brutality of the losses says it all, I remember vividly too many tragedies - JFK's, Jimmy's, Ronnie's John Lennon's and I had started to research with a view to writing a book about 1968 - the year the world changed then discovered someone else had -
Hi Jamie, I'll dig it out and let you know the details
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2018 7:53:24 GMT
i have always hesitated buying the lost generation for some reason, there is a such a poignant sadness to these three tragedies and whilst I felt Roger and Tom capable of winning a GP I could never see them as Champs, whereas i felt Tony was destined and robbed by a foul night. This got me thinking.
Can't say a thing about Williamson, it would only be wild speculation, I know only he had something lined up with Wheatcroft for the following year, an M23 apparently.
But, had Tom Pryce lived few scenarios would have been quite different. Jones wouldn't have joined Shadow and won the Austrian GP, for one. Would then he be in Williams' short list? Pryce with Alan Rees would have been a shoo-in for Arrows, perhaps in place of or together Patrese.
I would also posit that Tom would have been near the top of Williams' short list. Had he joined Williams, would Tom have had the same strong personality as Jones and grabbed the opportunity eventually provided by the FW07?
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Post by chrisb on Feb 17, 2018 10:42:11 GMT
good questions Lucio, makes the terrible accident seem even more poignant, that would have been special, Tom in an FW07 - maybe next time there is a podcast or something we can ask Williams,
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Post by René on Feb 17, 2018 10:50:23 GMT
Hard to believe that motor racing was like that, when one follows it today. Thankfully young fans do not have to experience such devastating and brutal losses as we did. Yes it is and thank goodness times have changed in that regard. I remember the tail-end, late seventies and early eighties, of that very lethal period in motor racing still very well. Motor racing was seriously dangerous. And let's be honest, part of the fascination was the danger. It was for me but I am sure for most of you guys too. But we are all happy the number of fatalities is close to zero now. And still, when discussing the halo or wide run-off areas there is a feeling safety measures have gone too far. There needs to be an element of risk. But where is the limit? How safe should a race car be, or how safe should racing in general be? As I mentioned in another post, the halo is not my biggest issue. It is just another safety device that will evolve quickly into something more elegant, be it a screen or a halo 2.0. Safety wise I think the endless run-off strips are a way more serious problem that should be reversed. Modern tracks look ridiculously wide and classic tracks are often ruiend with more run-offs. And this has only negative effects. It completely takes away the element of running on the edge and it also makes the cars look slower on television. Monaco looks faster on tv than some of the modern tracks. Modern race cars are so safe they can withstand a serious impact without the driver getting hurt. I would say, continue making the cars safer but bring back the risk element with track adjustments. Replace tarmac strips with grass strips so a car will spin when exceeding track limits. That will be way more spectacular and avoid needless stewarding. Even place rails or walls closer to the track where possible. If you can race in Monaco or Baku, you can also do this and it will improve the visual impact enormously. Any more thougts?
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Post by chrisb on Feb 17, 2018 11:55:25 GMT
I hope you are right Rene about the halo 2 or the return of sense, and you hit a very interesting point - when i look at the Middle East circuits in particular and how 'risk-averse' they are one realises that it is so important for a particular country not to be seen as 'dangerous' which given the volatility of certain regions must be a irony,
to me and I guess we are saying similar things here Rene, is that mistakes don't cost, well everyone was up in arms about Max's penalty for overtaking over the white lines - well I saw it differently, had that been grass or gravel, or a wall - he wouldn't have done it, or would have paid the price, quite frankly until we reduce the power from the teams and TV can we have some hoped for progress.
make it simple, if you are quick, get rewarded if you are not, pay for a drive - I am trying to remain positive about the forthcoming season but my heart is rapidly sinking the more I look at these quick buses
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Post by charleselan on Feb 17, 2018 21:19:04 GMT
The use of gravel traps were a good idea in that they punished a mistake, however that did not go down well with Ecclestone & Moseley as it meant the car was finished for the day marooned at track side, thus ruining their "show". So we then had the airfield like run offs surfaced in tarmac, so now mistakes are not punished but in some cases the errant driver actually benefits, or in Max's situation thinks he should.
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Post by chrisb on Feb 18, 2018 10:23:35 GMT
Having purchased and now read David Tremayne's book on Jochen and I am going to suggest a new topic on this, but what struck me was that awful 1970 season and the devastation an accident caused, 48 years on you can really feel the sadness over a fatal accident, so on the one hand I am so relieved not to read of another tragic accident but equally the reason for this should not have become an excuse for bad driving or poor circuits
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Post by charleselan on Feb 18, 2018 11:37:56 GMT
Jamie, did you get your ~Pete Lyon's book on can-am? was it called Can-Am photo history? - I ask as I have a copy Hi Chris, Yes I did, although its simply titled 'Can-Am' rather than Can-Am Photo History. I am tempted by the photo history book as well though, the Can-Am bread are just so visually diverse and impressive. Jamie & Chris, As I am currently in the UK for a week or so I have finally managed to unpack all of the items I have sent to my friends Uk address, one of which is the Pete Lyons Can Am book. In mint condition, although it smells a bit "stored away" if you know what I mean. Fantastic book indeed as I have already thumbed through from cover to cover. Also waiting for me was a new soft back copy on Didier Pironi which I am eager to read as well as as he superb Eric Dymock book on Jim Clark which I had previously failed to buy. Plus the lovely little 1.43rd model of dan Gurney's 1964 French GP winning Brabham. It is like Christmas . JC
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 18:53:06 GMT
Last week in Italy I got La mort dans mon contrat - terrible title - by Jean-Claude Halle', Francois Cevert's biography originally published in 1974, just translated in Italian as La morte nel mio destino.
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Post by Jamie on Feb 18, 2018 19:19:55 GMT
Last week in Italy I got La mort dans mon contrat - terrible title - by Jean-Claude Halle', Francois Cevert's biography originally published in 1974, just translated in Italian as La morte nel mio destino. I have that book Lucio, one of my treasured possessions, I must have bought it 20+ years ago (I have two copies) as I’ve always been fascinated by Francois. The section that deals with his mother visiting a medium after his death makes my blood run cold....
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Post by Carl on Feb 18, 2018 20:58:45 GMT
I agree with all of you. There's too much science and too little sense in racing these days. All drivers race for the same basic reasons that it's tremendously fun and extravagantly rewarding. If risk is entirely or nearly eliminated, perhaps salaries should come down from the stratosphere. Our common knowledge and concerns lead to common sense, but we sit at a singular table. If Ross Brawn sat down at our Round Table and spoke freely, he'd almost certainly say the current situation is more complicated than necessary because of political considerations. Many of us would respond that if simplified aerodynamics were mandated, that one change would bring a world of improvement. "Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense."
- Gertrude Stein
"It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor
of common sense, common honesty, and common decency.
This makes me forever ineligible for public office or the racing hierarchy."
- H. L. Mencken (edited by presumption)
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Post by chrisb on Feb 22, 2018 20:34:10 GMT
incidentally Waterstones are now offering he book for sale [when released] and it is £80 - a mere slip....wonder if David is going to be at Duns on April 7th?
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