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Post by charleselan on Dec 19, 2017 20:17:48 GMT
Following on from my previous post I remembered that a while back I watched and downloaded a superb film of Malcolm Davis as he went about his 1970 250cc Motocross world championship campaign. It is typically late 60's and obviously quite un-PC and I love it  . It shows Malcolm riding the lovely AJS Stormer that Mikael has posted; what a gorgeous motocross bike. I now really want one in my garage. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 20:51:09 GMT
Wonderful. They still had to complete the motorway on the Swiss side in 1970. San Severino Marche is near my place. That was the first time it hosted the Italian GP, in total four times (last in 2008). "Vota Comunista"   (see minute 4:23) |
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Post by charleselan on Dec 20, 2017 13:00:39 GMT
Wonderful. They still had to complete the motorway on the Swiss side in 1970. San Severino Marche is near my place. That was the first time it hosted the Italian GP, in total four times (last in 2008). "Vota Comunista" (see minute 4:23) I am pleased that you liked the film, it is rather wonderful and very period late 60's early 70's. Your home area looks beautiful, I should imagine you miss it, but seem to recall you get back quite regularly? The track is fantastic and a proper motocross circuit of the old school, just brilliant. The dust looks like I remember many a long hot summer event in the UK which we don't seem to get these days. I did notice the "Vote Comunista", quite strong in Italy at the time I think with the Fiat and Lada deal . |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 14:46:27 GMT
JC,
the region is Marche, it's the same as Tuscany only on the Eastern side of Italy, but exactly with the same landscapes and medieval towns. My hometown is on the coast and towards the end of the video the coast can be seen briefly from the motorway (which is still there, just wider nowadays) when Malcolm goes back North. I go back once or twice a year, it's twenty years I live in the UK. I like it here, but the short and grey winter days at times are a bit hard to bear.
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Post by charleselan on Dec 20, 2017 16:17:30 GMT
JC, the region is Marche, it's the same as Tuscany only on the Eastern side of Italy, but exactly with the same landscapes and medieval towns. My hometown is on the coast and towards the end of the video the coast can be seen briefly from the motorway (which is still there, just wider nowadays) when Malcolm goes back North. I go back once or twice a year, it's twenty years I live in the UK. I like it here, but the short and grey winter days at times are a bit hard to bear. Lucio, The winters are hard to take, even more so as the years go by. Unfortunately my part of France isn't much different from the UK, so much the same to endure really. It is good that you get back at least once per year, something to look forward to and enjoy. JC |
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Post by mikael on Dec 21, 2017 5:57:46 GMT
JC,
Thank you very much for providing this wonderful documentary (Malcolm Davis - Sometime Scrambler). A very enjoyable way to relax for 25 minutes. I loved the humor in the movie too, like: "delicate adjustments are made" - and then we see a mechanic swinging a big hammer (to get a new tyre in place on the rim, apparently) :-)
What a great track! (How I would have loved to try riding on a track with such a hard, firm surface. Any track I have ever tried had a surface akin to a plough field ... sigh ...)
What a pleasure it is to watch Joël Robert - his driving/riding appears so easy and without strain.
Malcolm Davis appears to have been a charismatic person, a character. Very sad to read that his life ended in such a meaningless accident. When watching the movie he somehow reminded me of a Danish rider, E. W. Pedersen, who was a Danish senior 250cc champion in the early 1980's. He was a discoteque owner (or co-owner) too, and the discoteque name appeared in large letters, as "title sponsor", on his racing shirt and on the sides of his cargo van. It was thus tempting to put a "playboy" label on him but actually he took his motocross extremely serious and was super-fit. He "invented" a combined handstand/push-up exercise which made everyone gape. This was always the last thing he did before driving off to the grid (like a kind of ritual): ten push-ups while standing on his head!
To return to the movie, it appears that the AJS was highly competitive in 1970 - that it didn't lack anything.
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Post by charleselan on Dec 21, 2017 17:28:43 GMT
Mikael,
I am so pleased you liked the film of Malcolm Davis, I have had it in my archive for some time now and it is good that YouTube still have it available so that others like yourself can enjoy it.
There is so much I could write about things associated with he film and those times; if I am completely honest i enjoy this topic even more than the car racing as it is my "first love".
I find it uncanny that you had a similar rider in Denmark to Malcolm with regard to his other business interests, and E.W. Pedersen sounds like a very interesting man, especially with those push ups!
In the film you will notice the other English guy competing by the name of Bryan Wade. I believe I may have mentioned him in the previous thread. Although a Yorkshire man by birth he came to live in my locality and had a second used car sales business as well as being a professional factory motocross racer. He had the nickname (previously mentioned) of "Wild" Wade and for good reason, he was fast but tended to be a bit loose. As you can see in the film he was quick but tended to throw the bike down quite a bit. He did steady down over the years and became much more consistent.
As a point of interest there was another top class rider from my area in Gloucestershire at the time called Andy Roberton. He had a remarkable and rapid rise to prominence at about the time I began riding (although I was quite a bit younger). he had a very quick Greeves machine to begin with and then had a brand new CZ on which he really made his name. The strange thing is he never really fulfilled his potential on the world stage even though he rode for many manufacturers asa works rider. Even today now living in his native Wales and at the age of near 70 he is a top class Classic "twin shock" motocrosser, very hard to beat still.
Joel Robert was one of the very greatest riders, the best in my opinion of a stunning group of Belgians at that time, six times a 250cc World Champion.
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Post by mikael on Dec 23, 2017 6:39:16 GMT
JC,
Thank you very much again - it's very interesting to learn about the many great British motocross riders of the years of my own childhood where I started to become really interested in motocross. There were many great British riders indeed and it seems that the British top national level was quite close to the top World level. It’s interesting to think about the reasons for this. In the earlier thread “British Scrambling & Motocross in the 1950's” you wrote as follows:
This may have been the most important factor in the international success of British motocross riders, more important than the presence and support of many British motorcycle manufacturers.
It’s interesting to compare with Japan. The United Kingdom and Japan have some similarities: island nations with large automobile- and motorcycle industries. As the Japanese manufacturers found themselves dominating the sport from the early 70’s, it was natural to expect the rise of Japanese motocross riders as well. But that has never happened. (During all those years, since the early 70’s, there has only been one single Japanese top-rider: Akira Watanabe, who was 125cc World Champion in 1978.)
For many years this was a bit of a mystery for me. But now, after many years in Japan, I think I understand it better. Actually (to my initial great surprise) motorsport (in any form) is not enjoying much interest here – and it is receiving virtually zero coverage in the media. Thus many (most) go through life without ever having heard about such a sport as motocross even though it’s dominated by national manufacturers they know well - and it's really a minor, largely unknown sport, how strange it may sound.
One time I had the famous picture of Siffert and Rodriguez in close fight, in Porsche 917’s at Spa in 1970, on my desktop computer, as background picture. A colleague – an engineering professor, an educated engineer – comes into my room and asks, “Is that formula 1?” Well … but I think this is typical – people in Japan are not exposed to motorsport at all; it is something that has to been searched for, if one is interested.
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Post by René on Dec 23, 2017 11:18:15 GMT
One time I had the famous picture of Siffert and Rodriguez in close fight, in Porsche 917’s at Spa in 1970, on my desktop computer, as background picture. A colleague – an engineering professor, an educated engineer – comes into my room and asks, “Is that formula 1?” Well … but I think this is typical – people in Japan are not exposed to motorsport at all; it is something that has to been searched for, if one is interested. That is very interesting to read and actually completely the oposite of what one would expect in Japan based on the F1 tv coverage. I have always had the impression Formula 1, but also other forms of motorsport are very popular in Japan. And that would of course make sense given the presence of Honda, Toyota, Yamaha and the likes. Maybe the lack of a superstar driver or rider doesn't help (but what about Takuma Sato winning Indy?) but I also thought foreign drivers like Senna or Alonso were seen as hero's. |
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Post by charleselan on Dec 23, 2017 12:09:38 GMT
Two really great posts Mikael and René.
In Mikael's he gives a first hand account of how motor sport in general is perceived in Japan from which I am quite shocked, and not unlike René had assumed it was the opposite. Sometimes I think we all forget that we live in this little bubble of being motor race (cars or bikes) fans and think that it is really global when in actual fact they are to all intent and purpose a minority sport.
This will never change now that most countries have all major motor sport events consigned to "Pay to View" channels, In the UK the BBC sold out completely and do not televise any motor sport events what so ever, which to be honest is a total disgrace, but as Chris has said in the past they (The BBC) have never been motor sport friendly. It must have been a huge shock to them when Johnny Rae came second in their annual SPOTY. I also wonder knowing how that corporation works if Johnny actually did come second as the voting appeared very close!!
Back to Mikael's comment it now seems logical as to why there have been so few great Japanese competitors in all of the disciplines, I wonder if Daijiro Kato had not died so tragically that things might have been different in MotoGP for instance.
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Post by mikael on Dec 24, 2017 2:32:00 GMT
René,
In the McLaren-Honda years '88-'92 Ayrton Senna actually became a household name in Japan. These years were also the last years of the "bubble economy" period. In those years the engineering profession was highly respected too since it was clear that it was engineering that had generated the new wealth.
Takuma Sato got some TV attention when he graduated to F1 in 2002. I think people had high hopes for him as he had enjoyed success in the British F3 - he was different (from previous Japanese F1 drivers); he had done the right things. But since then not much attention has been paid to motorsport (Kamui Kobayashi didn't get similar attention). I don't think that NHK (Japan's equivalent of BBC) even mentioned Sato's Indy victory -- but I may be mistaken here.
Things might have been different if Takuma Sato had become an F1 World Champion -- I guess that would have made a large difference.
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Post by René on Dec 24, 2017 11:11:53 GMT
Sometimes I think we all forget that we live in this little bubble of being motor race (cars or bikes) fans and think that it is really global when in actual fact they are to all intent and purpose a minority sport. That is an interesting point. On the one hand there is no arguing that Formula One is a world sport, watched by millions around the world. As a result millions of dollars are generated through tv rights and sponsor deals and many people in the sport have become very wealthy. The names of most world champions, even some of long ago, do ring a bell with most people and everyone knows the Monaco Grand Prix. But on the other hand I know from my own experience, and that will surely be the same for you guys, that there are not many people I know whom I can share my passion with. Actually noone on the same level as with you guys on the forum. My father likes to talk about F1, he still watches at 90 years old (!) but his passion (and knowledge) never went as deep as mine. When I was a kid there was noone else at school who shared the same passion, all boys were into football. Yes, some liked to play with me on my slot race track but they didn't share the passion. And that hasn't changed. Talking sports in a bar or at a party is always about football. It is only for the last couple of years with Max (and to a lesser extend some 20 years ago with Jos) this has changed. But TV viewings go up and down simultaniously with Max's success. When he had all the DNF's early season and the Red Bull was not competitive, less and less people watched. At the end of the year when he won, viewing numbers peaked again. it just shows the actual hardcore fan base is relatively small. It's a big sport on a world scale but compared to football (and probably also American football and baseball) it is a minority sport. |
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Post by René on Dec 24, 2017 11:36:25 GMT
In the McLaren-Honda years '88-'92 Ayrton Senna actually became a household name in Japan. These years were also the last years of the "bubble economy" period. In those years the engineering profession was highly respected too since it was clear that it was engineering that had generated the new wealth. Takuma Sato got some TV attention when he graduated to F1 in 2002. I think people had high hopes for him as he had enjoyed success in the British F3 - he was different (from previous Japanese F1 drivers); he had done the right things. But since then not much attention has been paid to motorsport (Kamui Kobayashi didn't get similar attention). I don't think that NHK (Japan's equivalent of BBC) even mentioned Sato's Indy victory -- but I may be mistaken here. Things might have been different if Takuma Sato had become an F1 World Champion -- I guess that would have made a large difference. Mikael, I once read an article about Senna and his popularity in Japan. He was a big name in the land of the rising sun but it's a long time ago now. I am sure if Takuma had become World Champion that would have made a huge difference (the idea alone makes me smile  ). We can see here in the Netherlands what the success of Max Verstappen does for the popularity of the sport. People like winners. Besides, Formula 1 is much bigger and better known than Indycar. Arie Luyendijk was a successful Indycar driver and twice Indy 500 winner but he never got the attention that Max now gets. Not even a fraction. |
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Post by Carl on May 5, 2018 19:25:56 GMT
This has been a great discussion, fascinating to someone having owned two bikes but whose only off-road experience high above Big Sur ended in a bent turn-signal stalk.
It's a damn shame that the honest nature of motocross was turned into stadium showtime. The insane wartime logic in "We had to destroy the village in order to save it" was applied to the sport in order to profit.
I still remember being astonished reading about Roger De Coster's ability to balance for several minutes on his bike's foot pegs. He would not have bent his turn-signal stalk...
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Post by mikael on May 7, 2018 13:36:17 GMT
It's a damn shame that the honest nature of motocross was turned into stadium showtime. The insane wartime logic in "We had to destroy the village in order to save it" was applied to the sport in order to profit.
Carl, I agree that the original scrambling on very fast tracks without "washboards" and unnatural jumps is much more "real motor racing". But it's interesting that stadium motocross was (and still is) such an efficient "learning school". In the early 80's, the American riders leap-frogged the European elite - it really shocked the "establishment" that the Americans suddenly were much faster than the Belgian, British, and Swedish riders. This was due to a new riding style that had developed in stadium motocross - there's no other explanation.
And the high level in the US has continued to the present. A few years ago I read an article about a young German rider (Ken Roczen) who had just won the MX2 World Championship. He then went to the US as a pro rider in the American championship (not stadium-mx, but the traditonal championship). As a world champion he expected to dominate; yet in his first year, he found himself in the mid-field! It was a real wake-up call for him. (Later he did very well indeed.)
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. It shows Malcolm riding the lovely AJS Stormer that Mikael has posted; what a gorgeous motocross bike. I now really want one in my garage.
). We can see here in the Netherlands what the success of Max Verstappen does for the popularity of the sport. People like winners. Besides, Formula 1 is much bigger and better known than Indycar. Arie Luyendijk was a successful Indycar driver and twice Indy 500 winner but he never got the attention that Max now gets. Not even a fraction.
