IndyCar 2024 season

[René]

Jul 15, 2024 17:08:07 GMT Carl said:

Jul 15, 2024 15:43:10 GMT René said:

Carl, that was a mega save! Colton has Gilles like car control in unexpected or tricky conditions. Was it last year in the rain at the Indianapolis road course? Just amazing. But now, on an oval, incredible. I’m a fan.

That’s the one!

[mikael]

Jul 15, 2024 15:49:24 GMT René said:

... mega crash on the last lap! Thanks to the Aeroscreen/halo, no one was seriously injured.

I find it a bit curious to think about the introduction of the halo/aeroscreen, the former introduced in F1 in 2018.

It's my impression that during the first 50 years of F1 (1950-2000), say, there were very few (bad) accidents where a halo would have made much of a difference. I think the drivers would have wanted one had that been the case, because the idea was certainly around already in 1970 (cf. the photos below).

(You can think of some very bad cases, of course: Helmuth Koinigg, Mark Donohue, ...)

Then, suddenly, a number of very bad accidents happened in quite rapid succession, which led to the introduction of the halo:

- Henry Surtees' accident in F2

- Felipe Massa (the spring incident)

- Dan Wheldon's accident in IndyCar

- Jules Bianchi, at Suzuka

Now, after the halo has been introduced, there have been several accidents with outcomes like, "well, if it hadn't been for the halo then, ..."

I wonder why this is so. Is it because the speeds have increased; or are the drivers actually a bit less careful nowadays (feeling more secure due to the many safety measures).

I do actually think there is much more "bumping into each other" in F1 in recent years than used to be the case. (Many times it actually annoys me a great deal - it's like it is sub-F1 standards ...)

Billy Vukovich, Indy 500, 1970

Bruce Walkup, Indy 500, 1970

Mel Kenyon, Indy 500, 1974

[René]

I certainly agree with you about the driving standard, which in general has certainly not improved. The ever-improving safety and the feeling of invulnerability will certainly be related.

I do think that there are more cases in the past where cockpit protection could have saved the driver (Tom Pryce of course, but certainly others). There have also been many 'near miss' moments, such as the start accident at Spa 2012.

Seatbelts, guardrails, HANS system, Halo. Many of our heroes of the past would still be alive if they had had this protection.

Yet you may sometimes wonder whether the balance has not tipped a bit. Danger has always been an intriguing element of racing. But perhaps this is also disrespectful to the drivers who have lost their lives in recent years, because there were several of them. More often in the lower classes, that is noticeable. It is certainly not without danger and probably never will be.

[mikael]

The "disappearance" of the (truly) open racing car is an interesting step in the evolution (of the racing car), nonetheless. It must be considered as a milestone in the history of motor racing.

Looking at Le Mans, the premier prototype/sports car class has toggled between open and closed cars throughout the history of the race. I don't think it was ever mentioned that the open cars were more dangerous. On the contrary, it's my impression that many drivers (e.g. Tom Kristensen) loved the open cars (and disliked the tiny, cramped, overheated cockpits).

1955

1963

1967

1969

1970

1973

1997

2003

2010

2013

[Carl]

I think all competitions tend to dare the outer limit of known extremes, whether in wartime or motorsport.  Early driver deaths often involved being thrown out (Marcel Renault in 1903 & David Bruce Brown in 1912) and crushed by their own car as it rolled over.  Strangely, in later decades, being thrown from your car was thought by many drivers to be safer.  Fatalism was the accepted philosophy, with superstition a close second.  In the trenches at night, three cigarettes on a single match is foolhardy.  At Indianapolis, a green car brought bad luck.  Avoid any changes to your routine before a race.  Step into the cockpit with the same leg from the same side. 

Marcel Renault at speed in 1903 before his fatal accident 

David Bruce had extraordinary talent and great success at an early age

Driver and mechanic both survived being ejected at the 1914 Vanderbilt Cup

[René]

Streets of Toronto - Exhibition Place



The annual trip to Canada takes place on the streets of Toronto. Full throttle between the concrete walls, a typical Indycar street circuit. Not easy to overtake and high risk of a crash. Bring it on! 



Colton Herta, always good on street circuits, was fastest in first practice.



FP1 times

1. 26 Herta, Colton D/H/F Practice 1 - Group 1 01:01.0399 105.334 26
2. 60 Rosenqvist, Felix D/H/F Practice 1 - Group 1 01:01.3323 104.832 21
3. 11 Armstrong, Marcus D/H/F Practice 1 - Group 1 01:01.7791 104.074 24
4. 9 Dixon, Scott D/H/F Practice 1 - Group 1 01:01.8717 103.918 23
5. 15 Rahal, Graham D/H/F Practice 1 - Group 1 01:02.0162 103.676 28
6. 14 Ferrucci, Santino D/C/F Practice 1 - Group 1 01:02.0519 103.616 27
7. 10 Palou, Alex D/H/F Practice 1 - All Cars 01:02.0804 103.569 21
8. 7 Rossi, Alexander D/C/F Practice 1 - All Cars 01:02.2747 103.246 15
9. 3 McLaughlin, Scott D/C/F Practice 1 - All Cars 01:02.3324 103.150 27
10. 2 Newgarden, Josef D/C/F Practice 1 - All Cars 01:02.3361 103.144 18

[mikael]

A truly iconic photo of Marcel Renault (1903); the way the front wheels appear to be oval conveys the impression of speed in a very effective way: it seems almost as if the car has its own (free) will and is clawing its way ahead. Also the way the driver and the co-driver are leaning forward is conveying speed and determination!

I believe this very photo has served as inspiration for many cartoons (e.g. Disney) and comics (e.g. Hergé).

(Sorry for again moving quite a bit away from the main topic - IndyCar 2024!)

[René]

Mikael, these deviations from the main topic only make the thread more interesting.

Yes, a very iconic photo. It’s the distortion that makes it even more iconic with the wheels at an impossible angle. And you are absolutely right this was an inspiration for artists to visualize speed. A well documented fact. 

[Carl]

Starting Grid for Indycar Toronto

In a controversial decision, championship leader Alex Palou was cited for blocking Pato O'Ward 

during qualifying and will start eighteenth after losing his two fastest laps

ROW 1

1. (26) Colton Herta, Honda, 59.5431 seconds (107.982 mph)
2. (27) Kyle Kirkwood, Honda, 59.6735 (107.746)

ROW 2
3. (60) Felix Rosenqvist, Honda, 59.8252 (107.473)
4. (3) Scott McLaughlin, Chevrolet, 59.9082 (107.324)

ROW 3

5. (77) Romain Grosjean, Chevrolet, 01:00.0012 (107.158)
6. (66) David Malukas, Honda, 01:00.2109 (106.785)

ROW 4

7. (2) Josef Newgarden, Chevrolet, 59.8796 (107.375)
8. (15) Graham Rahal, Honda, 01:00.0323 (107.102)

ROW 5

9. (12) Will Power, Chevrolet, 01:00.1310 (106.927)
10. (78) Agustin Canapino, Chevrolet, 01:00.2873 (106.649)

ROW 6

11. (28) Marcus Ericsson, Honda, 01:00.3364 (106.563)
12. (20) Christian Rasmussen, Chevrolet, 01:00.4336 (106.391)

ROW 7

13. (11) Marcus Armstrong, Honda, 01:00.5732 (106.146)
14. (5) Pato O’Ward, Chevrolet, 01:00.6435 (106.023)

ROW 8

15. (9) Scott Dixon, Honda, 01:00.7389 (105.856)
16. (45) Christian Lundgaard, Honda, 01:00.7510 (105.835)

ROW 9

17. (14) Santino Ferrucci, Chevrolet, 01:01.0072 (105.391)
18. (10) Alex Palou, Honda, 01:00.8337 (105.691)

ROW 10

19. (6) Nolan Siegel, Chevrolet, 01:01.2409 (104.989)
20. (4) Kyffin Simpson, Honda, 01:00.9502 (105.489)

ROW 11

21. (51) Toby Sowery, Honda, 01:01.3367 (104.825)
22. (21) Rinus VeeKay, Chevrolet, 01:01.0846 (105.257)

ROW 12

23. (30) Pietro Fittipaldi, Honda, 01:01.3791 (104.752)
24. (8) Linus Lundqvist, Honda, 01:01.2099 (105.042)

ROW 13

25. (18) Hunter McElrea, Honda, No Time (No Speed)
26. (7) Theo Pourchaire, Chevrolet, 01:01.6071 (104.365)

ROW 14

27. (41) Sting Ray Robb, Chevrolet, 01:01.7355 (104.148)

[mikael]

Jul 19, 2024 18:43:08 GMT Carl said:

At Indianapolis, a green car brought bad luck.

The green Lotus of Jim Clark must have been the exception that proves the rule :-)

[chrisb]

Mikael, couldn't agree more with Rene, these thoughts of yours are much appreciated. especially as they feature my childhood hero, whose books I still posses, TinTin to the rescue.

And such a wonderful picture of the green 38 - As my memory is not as great as once was - was it not at Indy that Colin added the yellow stripe to slightly pacify the Americans? 

Incidentally the 1966 Lotus 38 the non green one is currently on show at Jim's museum at Duns. 

[René]

Finally, Colton Herta wins again! He was the best in all sessions and deservedly won the race. A race that saw, as expected quite a few yellows and one big pile up after Pato O'Ward spun. Luckily none was injured.

[Carl]

A friend and I flew into Toronto, rented a car and drove to Mosport for the 1973 Canadian Grand Prix and the overhead shots yesterday are still vaguely familiar (the CN Tower is awesome). Near Bowmanville, we asked directions and first heard the curious Canadian "eh?" in conversation. An Ontario provincial traffic officer later forgave my gravel tyre spinning display leaving a parking lot after I explained we were Grand Prix fans and obsessed with speed.

The Indycar race was a stark contrast to Formula One in Hungary, almost like night and day. There was the same asinine focus on tyre compounds and the timing of pitstops but more competition between drivers, the norm in Indycar and the essence of racing. Is passing other cars a traffic violation in Hungary unless prearranged?

Radio transmissions are not considered part of the show in Indycar, as they are in Formula One, a decision made either by the series or broadcast networks. Either way, it was a blessed relief not to be subjected to "Turn 4 / Turn 11" constantly repeated and the pathetic radio tantrums of baby boy Verstappen.

Colton Herta dominated every practice and the race. Hopefully, he'll think hard about how to avoid the silly mistakes he's made in the past and continue winning, eh?

[Carl]

Jul 22, 2024 10:48:20 GMT chrisb said:

Mikael, couldn't agree more with Rene, these thoughts of yours are much appreciated. especially as they feature my childhood hero, whose books I still posses, TinTin to the rescue.

And such a wonderful picture of the green 38 - As my memory is not as great as once was - was it not at Indy that Colin added the yellow stripe to slightly pacify the Americans? 

Incidentally the 1966 Lotus 38 the non green one is currently on show at Jim's museum at Duns. 

I never described green as bad luck, but as a superstition among Champ Car drivers, and what pacified them was the dominant speed and success of Jim Clark.

[René]

Jul 22, 2024 18:57:56 GMT Carl said:

A friend and I flew into Toronto, rented a car and drove to Mosport for the 1973 Canadian Grand Prix and the overhead shots yesterday are still vaguely familiar (the CN Tower is awesome). Near Bowmanville, we asked directions and first heard the curious Canadian "eh?" in conversation. An Ontario provincial traffic officer later forgave my gravel tyre spinning display leaving a parking lot after I explained we were Grand Prix fans and obsessed with speed.

Cool!