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Post by René on Jun 1, 2023 10:23:38 GMT
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Post by chrisb on Jun 1, 2023 19:42:18 GMT
I see some people are saying that the fizzy drinks lot are going to win every race I sincerely hope not,
Trouble is Rene we’ve been here before with this team’s update or that team falling back from their success and nothing has changed, I am hoping that F1 will realise the changes that were introduced are simply engineering staggering but as far as I am concerned racing is less than interesting
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Post by René on Jun 1, 2023 22:00:33 GMT
Yes Chris, but you know me. I am always incorrigibly optimistic. And in the end it can just get exciting again if Ferrari or Mercedes come up with something fantastic! Ferrari will introduce new, more Red Bull style side pods. Understandable but also a little sad. It was so refreshing to see the different concepts last year and Ferraris approach seemed to work very well initially. Now they will all converge. But this has happened before. The seventies were great with a variety of car designs but when Lotus came up with the 79, most cars looked like a 79 the year after…. Not very clear yet, but these are the new side pods on the SF-23.  |
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Post by René on Jun 2, 2023 16:52:13 GMT
As to be expected, Max Verstappen fastest in both sessions. In FP2 the top 10 was almost within 0.5 seconds which is very close of course and a surprise result from the Hulk in p3. But I'm sure that will look different tomorrow. Not much to say about the Ferrari upgrade yet.   |
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Post by Carl on Jun 2, 2023 18:34:12 GMT
Yes Chris, but you know me. I am always incorrigibly optimistic. And in the end it can just get exciting again if Ferrari or Mercedes come up with something fantastic! Ferrari will introduce new, more Red Bull style side pods. Understandable but also a little sad. It was so refreshing to see the different concepts last year and Ferraris approach seemed to work very well initially. Now they will all converge. But this has happened before. The seventies were great with a variety of car designs but when Lotus came up with the 79, most cars looked like a 79 the year after…. After Colin Chapman wandered into Wonderland to talk of many things and whether pigs have wings, the Lotus 80, when not a porpoise, was both pig and whinge. Ligier stole the early momentum with the ideal Lotus 79 update while Mario cursed Chapman, who screamed "Off with his head!" in the direction of Martin Ogilvie.
When one design is very dominant, Formula One can resemble a spec series as other teams come as close as they can to duplication. The constructors championship is a contest among designers that seldom results in balanced competition and often provides great advantage to some drivers and others with little chance.
The balance should favor driving skill.
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Post by René on Jun 2, 2023 19:10:40 GMT
Yes Chris, but you know me. I am always incorrigibly optimistic. And in the end it can just get exciting again if Ferrari or Mercedes come up with something fantastic! Ferrari will introduce new, more Red Bull style side pods. Understandable but also a little sad. It was so refreshing to see the different concepts last year and Ferraris approach seemed to work very well initially. Now they will all converge. But this has happened before. The seventies were great with a variety of car designs but when Lotus came up with the 79, most cars looked like a 79 the year after…. After Colin Chapman wandered into Wonderland to talk of many things and whether pigs have wings, the Lotus 80, when not a porpoise, was both pig and whinge. Ligier stole the early momentum with the ideal Lotus 79 update while Mario cursed Chapman, who screamed "Off with his head!" in the direction of Martin Ogilvie.
When one design is very dominant, Formula One can resemble a spec series as other teams come as close as they can to duplication. The constructors championship is a contest among designers that seldom results in balanced competition and often provides great advantage to some drivers and others with little chance.
The balance should favor driving skill.
That's true Carl, but the only way to fix that is to make F1 a spec series. And that's not F1. When Jim Clark drove away from everyone in the Lotus and won by two minutes, that was not talked about either. It was just the way it was. In fact, the field is now much closer than it used to be, but if no more cars break, the one who is 2 tenths faster per lap wins. |
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Post by René on Jun 2, 2023 19:14:18 GMT
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Post by mikael on Jun 3, 2023 9:55:24 GMT
A very interesting photo (from the-race.com) - not from Barcelona but from Monaco; still I hope it's OK to post it here. It's the bottom of the Mercedes driven by Hamilton.
I have the feeling that the Venturi principle-based ground-effect, introduced last year, also is (partly) responsible for the extreme length of the cars. Colin Chapman's reversed wing-based ground-effect would have allowed for a return to compact, nimble GP cars - I believe ...
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Post by René on Jun 3, 2023 11:46:22 GMT
Of course it's okay Mikael! And it's very interesting. The floor of the Red Bull was the technical highlight of the weekend! The complexity is on another level for sure as is being explained in the video below. As for the length of the cars, Colin Chapman was already aware of the aerodynamic advantages of a long car as was clear with the introduction of the Lotus 80. It didn't work out but the initial idea was there.   |
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Post by mikael on Jun 3, 2023 13:09:57 GMT
Thank you, René. Very interesting! So this is where the big differences are! Not where it can be seen, but under the cars! For sure the underfloor design of the Red Bull is much intricate than that of the Mercedes (which actually appears quite simple, with very few guiding vanes).
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Post by René on Jun 3, 2023 16:58:31 GMT
That was an unusual qualy! No surprise with Max on pole, but Charles Leclerc out in Q1 and then Sergio Pérez who messes up again out in Q2! Something must have been wrong with Leclerc's car because Carlos starts from p2 and Charles is usually the faster of the two. But fantastic of course for the Spaniard to the delight of the crowds. Smooth operator!  Lando Norris is once again the surprise of the day with a strong p3.  Scary moment between Lewis and George touching on the straight. That could have ended much worse. George clearly hadn't seen him.  |
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Post by mikael on Jun 3, 2023 17:09:26 GMT
Ref: the underfloor of the Red Bull:
"...vortices are the sinews and muscles of fluid motion."
This has been fully understood nowadays, for sure also in F1 ...
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Post by Carl on Jun 3, 2023 19:18:53 GMT
I've always been interested in innovation. Revolutionary designs by Harry Miller and Colin Chapman changed everything at Indianapolis decades apart. Whether it's Derek Bennett and Eric Broadley advancing design of sports racing and single seaters, General Motors Engineering (dba Chaparral) and Robin Herd in the Canadian-American Challenge, or Chapman, Gordon Coppuck, Mauro Forghieri, John Barnard and Gordon Murray in Formula One, innovation should be rewarded, unless it comes from the drafting board of a fool. 1927 Miller Lotus 25 Attachment Deleted Lotus 25 at Spa 1963 Attachment DeletedDespite F.I.A. proclamations from Mount Olympus, Formula one remains in a passing drought caused by the severe wake turbulence of a certifiable idiot/savant with tunnel vision who can't see the forest for the vanes and winglets and barge boards designed to enhance single car speed. That those approaching from behind must keep their distance or lose downforce is a strangely accepted perversion of the sport, more degradation than innovation, with only racing fans abstaining. It should be remembered that a formula (F1 / F2 / F3) specifies what is allowed and a specification is a spec.  |
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Post by mikael on Jun 3, 2023 19:41:17 GMT
Yes, but I do believe that getting vortex generators and what not under the car is the right way to go. There is hope for a bright close-racing-future!
As René has stated earlier: what has been learned cannot be unlearned. But it can be used in the right way. And that is to get all sensitive aerodynamics away from the body surface, and under the car.
(I became "uplifted" and positive when seeing the intricate underfloor of the Red Bull  )
Spanish GP 1981
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Post by Carl on Jun 3, 2023 20:05:57 GMT
Yes, knowledge cannot be unlearned, but mistakes can be corrected.
An unnamed genius should be made to wear a modified drag reduction wing as penitence.
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The home race for Fernando Alonso and Carlos Sainz and now that Fernando has a competitive car again I expect a lot of support for him. At the moment, not much can be expected other than a dominant Red Bull and an undoubtedly super motivated Alonso who hopefully takes his podium again for the fans. 
Lando Norris is once again the surprise of the day with a strong p3.
)