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Post by chrisb on Feb 13, 2023 20:04:23 GMT
because I no longer buy Autosport and that F2 is exclusively shown on Sxy I have no idea who is in it or anything about it,
MotorSport did an article on F3000 and it struck me how good it was as a separate entity, I know money was a big factor but one of the things I used to enjoy when I attended Grand Prix's was the sheer diversity of the accompanying races,
the new F1 cars do look better than they did and it is just the sheer size that I struggle with
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Post by René on Feb 14, 2023 12:32:35 GMT
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Post by mikael on Feb 14, 2023 16:00:54 GMT
The Ferrari looks "raw" and tough and purposeful with its many unpainted carbonfibre parts.
The B&O sponsorship is interesting and surprising! (It's hard times for hi-fi manufacturers, as most people nowadays are content with just a docking station for their smartphone; or even simpler, with just the smartphone - or a laptop computer - as it is.)
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Post by René on Feb 14, 2023 17:37:15 GMT
The Ferrari looks "raw" and tough and purposeful with its many unpainted carbonfibre parts.
The B&O sponsorship is interesting and surprising! (It's hard times for hi-fi manufacturers, as most people nowadays are content with just a docking station for their smartphone; or even simpler, with just the smartphone - or a laptop computer - as it is.)
It looks like a winner! Yes, the hifi market has changed enormously but there's still room for the more high end stuff and B&O also makes quality car audio components. Did any of you guys see the Ferrari presentation? I watched it live and this is how you do a car presentation! No unnecessary glitz and glamor and no computer renderings of a new livery but a passionate show at Fiorano. And an immediate live demo run in front of a real audience and of course millions online! Way to go Ferrari!   |
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Post by René on Feb 15, 2023 16:31:39 GMT
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Post by Carl on Feb 15, 2023 18:27:33 GMT
It's become harder for me to relate to both formula and prototype racing cars (in general) over the past few decades, as the bargeboards, rows of vanes, massive longitudinal fins and proliferation of winglets result in overall designs only Flash Gordon would love. Front wings once had several plane surfaces, today there are dozens, supplemented by almost as many winglets, all from the drawing boards of aerodynamicists impacted by the myopic genius of Adrian Newey.
The trend of modern race car designs has made vehicles only an idiot/savant aerodynamist could love and resulted in faster lap times for single cars alone on the track and passing occurring more often in the pits, a development few celebrate and new rules consistently fail to eradicate.
A restoration of simple beauty to design and an emphasis on the ability to close and pass another car would improve the sport. The cars would be somewhat slower, the competition better by orders of magnitude.
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Post by René on Feb 15, 2023 18:40:58 GMT
Last year November I wrote this: Ferrari have stopped developing the F1-75 several races ago, this not to shift focus to 2023 but because they reached the ceiling of the cost cap. I am very curious to see what the Red Bull figures look like after this season. They were so convinced they did nothing wrong in 2021 so how would it be any better this year?
Now I read this on grandprix.com:
Christian Horner admits there is no guarantee Red Bull will not breach Formula 1's new budget cap for the second year in succession.
After being found guilty of a 'minor' overspend following a high profile controversy last year, the reigning champions received a $7 million fine and a 10 percent reduction in car development time.
….
F1 CEO Stefano Domenicali this week admitted he is uncomfortable with how long the FIA took to rule on Red Bull's alleged overspend last year amid wild speculation.
And now Red Bull boss Christian Horner admits it cannot be ruled out that the team will once again fall foul of the budget cap's complex rules.
"You can never be 100 percent sure," he said, "especially after all the aspects that caused us to go over in 2021.
"But don't forget that it was the very first year in a series of very complicated regulations, so we are confident that we should stay comfortably within the limit," Horner told Auto Motor und Sport.
-
Sounds like someone who knows he has been cheating again and is already trying to make it small and insignificant. If they really cheated again they should be disqualified.
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Post by Carl on Feb 15, 2023 19:47:17 GMT
Last year November I wrote this: Ferrari have stopped developing the F1-75 several races ago, this not to shift focus to 2023 but because they reached the ceiling of the cost cap. I am very curious to see what the Red Bull figures look like after this season. They were so convinced they did nothing wrong in 2021 so how would it be any better this year? Now I read this on grandprix.com: Christian Horner admits there is no guarantee Red Bull will not breach Formula 1's new budget cap for the second year in succession. After being found guilty of a 'minor' overspend following a high profile controversy last year, the reigning champions received a $7 million fine and a 10 percent reduction in car development time. …. F1 CEO Stefano Domenicali this week admitted he is uncomfortable with how long the FIA took to rule on Red Bull's alleged overspend last year amid wild speculation. And now Red Bull boss Christian Horner admits it cannot be ruled out that the team will once again fall foul of the budget cap's complex rules. "You can never be 100 percent sure," he said, "especially after all the aspects that caused us to go over in 2021. "But don't forget that it was the very first year in a series of very complicated regulations, so we are confident that we should stay comfortably within the limit," Horner told Auto Motor und Sport. - Sounds like someone who knows he has been cheating again and is already trying to make it small and insignificant. If they really cheated again they should be disqualified. You're right. It sounds like someone at Red Bull may have tampered with the jury to assure a token fine. Although hell hath no fury like Helmut Marko or Jos Verstappen scorned, the fine for a repeat should be disqualification. |
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Post by robmarsh on Feb 16, 2023 10:04:22 GMT
I agree Red Bull should be disqualified if they have breached the cost cap but as we read about Carlos Reuteman rules can be ignored if it makes the sport good for the great god TV. I don't believe the moral direction so loved by BCE has changed in F1.
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Post by mikael on Feb 16, 2023 16:37:18 GMT
Carl, I believe that the winglets and vortex generators seen nowadays were adapted from the aeronautics industry, just like the (reverted) wing itself - I don't think any of those devices were invented by racing car designers. Modern airplanes, and even wind turbine blades, are also completely patched-up with such devices. Hence, there's probably no return to the "clean wing", as seen for example on Villeneuve's Ferrari. As far as I know, the only truly original aerodynamic device invented in motorsport is Dan Gurney's "Gurney flap". Best,
Mikael
Winglets
Vortex generators
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Post by René on Feb 16, 2023 18:37:21 GMT
Great post Mikael! Advancing knowledge is of course unstoppable... unless...
.. unless the governing body says it is not allowed. Formula 1 is a tech sport which means it will evolve continuously. But it is also a sport that needs to stay interesting to the spectators and a challenge to the drivers. With the introduction of the new ground effect rules, they could have written in the rulebook that winglets and multiple plane wings are not allowed. A bit what was done in 2009 when the cars looked a lot smoother compared to the years before.
But I'm actually not sure if this is the way forward. I like the modern cars and think the new cars look great. It's not an easy one and time cannot stand still. The cars from the early years were like Spitfires and modern cars are like F-16s or F-35s.
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Post by Carl on Feb 16, 2023 18:44:20 GMT
Mikael,
As an engineer well versed in aerodynamics, you are of course correct. I had previously known that many advances in race car design were derived from aviation, disc brakes prominent among them, a history neglected in my previous post.
I should have remembered and stressed that those aerodynamic concepts so helpful to aviation spent time on drawing boards being altered for racing purposes by those unfit for the task. What was helpful in aviation proved detrimental to racing because of designers astonishingly dismissive of the crucial role of drivers and too clever by half.
Best, Carl
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Post by René on Feb 17, 2023 10:02:47 GMT
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Post by mikael on Feb 17, 2023 15:54:33 GMT
In general the new cars look good - maybe the best looking field in many years ...? I particularly like the "minimalist approach" of most teams regarding paint.
I came across the compilation shown below on a forum called "f1technical.net", comparing all the new cars, and borrowed it shamelessly :-D It's interesting to compare the many different approaches to side-pods. Actually, the cars appear quite different in that respect. It's difficult so say who stands out the most from the others - I they're all quite different, actually. It will be interesting to see the tests :-)
PS: Perhaps the Mercedes continues to stand out, after all ... The air intakes are certainly very different from those of any other car.
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Post by René on Feb 17, 2023 18:54:55 GMT
I agree Mikael, the cars look fantastic!  |
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New co-sponsor Bang & Olufsen has its logo on the rear wing plates. I really like this because as a young boy I was fascinated by the design of the B&O hifi components and my parents actually bought a set in 1979 which still works and still looks beautiful! So two favorite brands combined for me. The stars are aligned! 
