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Post by Carl on Sept 12, 2022 0:15:25 GMT
Is it just me but the speed difference in the opening laps between Max and the rest, including his teammate, is just absurd. Hungary, Spa and now Monza. It doesn't seem to matter where Verstappen starts, he's leading after a handful of laps. And there is no one fighting him for position. I mean, Max is not lapping them, it's for position! Feels rather depressing at the moment.. I agree with you. The speed differential is almost too much. Max may be better than ever this year, but he's never been so outstanding that his teammate seldom comes close. He could be an equal to Fangio or Clark, but...
Roger Penske always wanted an unfair advantage. Maybe Helmut Marko has one.
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Post by mikael on Sept 12, 2022 14:13:06 GMT
Is it just me but the speed difference in the opening laps between Max and the rest, including his teammate, is just absurd. Hungary, Spa and now Monza. It doesn't seem to matter where Verstappen starts, he's leading after a handful of laps. And there is no one fighting him for position. I mean, Max is not lapping them, it's for position! Feels rather depressing at the moment.. I agree with you. The speed differential is almost too much. Max may be better than ever this year, but he's never been so outstanding that his teammate seldom comes close. He could be an equal to Fangio or Clark, but...
Roger Penske always wanted an unfair advantage. Maybe Helmut Marko has one.
Yes, it's interesting to think about what it is. Maybe Verstappen is more "smooth" in the corners, manifesting itself in higher exit speed and thus also in higher speed on the straights? Or reversely, he could be more "on the limit" in the corners, producing the same effect in this way ...?
I recall the following interesting analysis between the small but important differences between the driving styles of Schumacher (Sr.) and Herbert while they were team mates at Benetton. Small differences that are nearly impossible to see with the naked eye, but for which the effects are large.
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Post by Carl on Sept 12, 2022 16:57:43 GMT
Mikael, That could be the answer. Verstappen may have gained insight and is now smoother and faster as a result. Another possibility is that Adrian Newey succeeded in custom-tailoring the Red Bull's aerodynamics to Verstappen's preferred driving style, as he once did for Sebastian Vettel. This could explain the difficulty Sergio Perez has had in bettering Verstappen's speed.
We may never know the exact reasons 
- Carl
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Post by René on Sept 12, 2022 19:07:38 GMT
There is no question Max Verstappen is an exceptional talent and he will win a lot more races and likely a few more titles. What I found a bit annoying the last few races is how easy Max makes up places when he has to start further down the grid. He is not only so much faster but it seems like no one is giving him a hard time. When he was up to Russell yesterday (in how many laps, 3,4?), I honestly believed George would give him a hard time. But no, Max passed him on the main straight with DRS and George didn’t even block the inside of the first chicane. It was “after you Sir” while it was for second place in the Italian Grand Prix! I know, George was focusing on his own race and delta times and so and blocking Max would not bring anything and there’s the risk of contact but c’mon, it’s racing! What would René Arnoux think of this? And to be clear, this is not Max’s fault but it’s just weird. I saw it live at Spa and it was quite ridiculous, never seen that before. Well, that’s off my chest… Now for the positives…  The Ferrari boys did a great job. Charles as always full charge on the limit like Gilles and a great recovery drive from Carlos, the smooth operator. And what a debut from Nyck De Vries! F1 has always had pay drivers and we have them now with Lance Stroll and Nicolas Latifi. They can both drive of course but a guy like De Vries who has no big money spender behind him is clearly on another level. The level you would expect and want in Formula One. Nyck build his career solely on talent so I hope his race yesterday will convince Jost Capito or Guenther Steiner to get him on board for a race seat. |
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Post by René on Sept 12, 2022 22:32:29 GMT
Mikael, That could be the answer. Verstappen may have gained insight and is now smoother and faster as a result. Another possibility is that Adrian Newey succeeded in custom-tailoring the Red Bull's aerodynamics to Verstappen's preferred driving style, as he once did for Sebastian Vettel. This could explain the difficulty Sergio Perez has had in bettering Verstappen's speed. We may never know the exact reasons - Carl
Carl, it’s no secret the Red Bull was developed in Verstappen’s direction during the season. Max likes a sharp responsive front and a loose rear, like Michael Schumacher did. Perez doesn’t like that and prefers a more solid, planted rear. Like Vettel who was so brilliant in the blown diffuser Red Bulls. But even when the car was not entirely to his liking early season, Max was on average still faster than Sergio. But that’s simply because he is better. |
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Post by Carl on Sept 13, 2022 1:52:01 GMT
Mikael, That could be the answer. Verstappen may have gained insight and is now smoother and faster as a result. Another possibility is that Adrian Newey succeeded in custom-tailoring the Red Bull's aerodynamics to Verstappen's preferred driving style, as he once did for Sebastian Vettel. This could explain the difficulty Sergio Perez has had in bettering Verstappen's speed. We may never know the exact reasons - Carl
Carl, it’s no secret the Red Bull was developed in Verstappen’s direction during the season. Max likes a sharp responsive front and a loose rear, like Michael Schumacher did. Perez doesn’t like that and prefers a more solid, planted rear. Like Vettel who was so brilliant in the blown diffuser Red Bulls. But even when the car was not entirely to his liking early season, Max was on average still faster than Sergio. But that’s simply because he is better. René, I know it's routinely done these days, but not always by a formidable genius. I should have made clear that I thought Adrian Newey may have attained a higher level of aerodynamic sophistication, a breakthough providing Verstappen an even greater advantage. Although absolute equality has never been possible, in the past a team's cars were essentially the same, and that made for a better sport. Only the paying drivers were often given less.
- Carl
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Post by René on Sept 13, 2022 11:46:08 GMT
Carl, it’s no secret the Red Bull was developed in Verstappen’s direction during the season. Max likes a sharp responsive front and a loose rear, like Michael Schumacher did. Perez doesn’t like that and prefers a more solid, planted rear. Like Vettel who was so brilliant in the blown diffuser Red Bulls. But even when the car was not entirely to his liking early season, Max was on average still faster than Sergio. But that’s simply because he is better. René, I know it's routinely done these days, but not always by a formidable genius. I should have made clear that I thought Adrian Newey may have attained a higher level of aerodynamic sophistication, a breakthough providing Verstappen an even greater advantage. Although absolute equality has never been possible, in the past a team's cars were essentially the same, and that made for a better sport. Only the paying drivers were often given less. - Carl
Ah yes, you could be right there Carl. It was interesting the Red Bull was running more downforce but still had amazing top speed. Says a lot about the power unit but also the aerodynamics. And obviously Max can extract more from the car than Sergio, a bit like Vettel and Webber many years ago. Newey did his dissertation at university on the subject of ground effect... |
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Post by René on Sept 13, 2022 12:08:39 GMT
On another matter: there's a lot of talk about Colton Herta and the fact he has not enough superlicence points to enter Formula 1. It's interesting to note that Max Verstappen would not have been eligable to race in F1 in 2015 under this system. Not only was he too young but he had hardly any car racing experience at the time and therefore by far not enough points. The same goes by the way for Kimi Raikkönen but that was much longer ago.
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Post by mikael on Sept 13, 2022 13:35:08 GMT
As to the success of Verstappen and Red Bull this year, I cannot help but feeling a bit sorry for the development engineers at HRC (Honda Racing Corporation), who have been cut off from harvesting what they have sown, so to say, because of a short-sighted Honda management team, completely out of tune with "the original Soichiro Honda spirit".
Had the car still carried carried the Honda stickers this year, it would have had a significant impact on the popularity of F1 in Japan - I do think so. Most likely not so much as during the "Senna years"(*) - but still, significant. (The car carries a set of modest HRC stickers, of course; but I guess it's only racing fans who know what it means ...)
(* Senna had absolute cult status in Japan.)
But of course, it's not the first time we have seen such happenings. The car that became the Brawn BGP 001 in 2009 - developed through Honda funding - would probable have been a winner also with a Honda engine. Hence, Honda could - and probably would - have been World Champions that year, had they stayed on ...
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Post by René on Sept 14, 2022 15:15:40 GMT
(* Senna had absolute cult status in Japan.)
I think he still has...
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Post by René on Sept 18, 2022 11:11:36 GMT
Colton Herta will have to wait a bit longer to make the switch to F1. The super licence points issue stands in the way unfortunately. I do understand the FIA cannot bend the rules at random but the fact that an IndyCar driver of Herta's callibre is not eligable to race in F1 should raise the question if the system is working the way it was meant to do. But it's the way it is and there are other drivers in the picture for the AlphaTauri seat. For example Nyck de Vries who had a meeting with Helmut Marko a few days ago. Placing Nyck at AlphaTauri and preparing him for a Red Bull seat next to Max is already seen as a possible scenario... an all Dutch driver line-up in a top team? And there's still Williams and Alpine both interested in having De Vries. How quickly things can change and what an impact Nyck's Monza race had! _
And then there's some hot news in Dutch media about the success CEO of Jumbo supermarkets, Frits van Eerd. Van Eerd and Jumbo are known in the racing world as personal sponsor of Verstappen and team owner and co-driver at Racing Team Holland.
Jumbo CEO Frits van Eerd is incarcerated because of possible involvement in a large money laundering case. This is reported by various media, including Het Financieele Dagblad. Van Eerd was arrested on Tuesday in a raid by the FIOD and the police.
The supermarket boss has been arrested along with eight others, because he may be involved in laundering large sums of money. This would have happened through, among other things, the car trade, real estate and sponsorship contracts in motorsport. Van Eerd is a big fan of car and motor sports and also sponsors them. He is still in custody, five days after being arrested. Van Eerd (center) with Jan Lammers and Giedo van der Garde.
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Post by Carl on Sept 18, 2022 16:41:45 GMT
Colton Herta will have to wait a bit longer to make the switch to F1. The super licence points issue stands in the way unfortunately. I do understand the FIA cannot bend the rules at random but the fact that an IndyCar driver of Herta's callibre is not eligable to race in F1 should raise the question if the system is working the way it was meant to do. René, I believe Colton Herta has great talent but needs better judgment before he races F1, but so did Max Verstappen and despite recklessness he's done pretty well. Many in North America believe the FIA Super License is Eurocentric by design. In the same way MotoGP seems focused on Italian and Spanish riders, that's where it looks.
In today's prevalence of unrestrained greed, billionaires compete among themselves to be richest. Poor van Eerd! Being ultra-wealthy was not enough...
Cheers and jeers, Carl
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Post by René on Sept 18, 2022 22:33:19 GMT
Colton Herta will have to wait a bit longer to make the switch to F1. The super licence points issue stands in the way unfortunately. I do understand the FIA cannot bend the rules at random but the fact that an IndyCar driver of Herta's callibre is not eligable to race in F1 should raise the question if the system is working the way it was meant to do. René, I believe Colton Herta has great talent but needs better judgment before he races F1, but so did Max Verstappen and despite recklessness he's done pretty well. Many in North America believe the FIA Super License is Eurocentric by design. In the same way MotoGP seems focused on Italian and Spanish riders, that's where it looks.
In today's prevalence of unrestrained greed, billionaires compete among themselves to be richest. Poor van Eerd! Being ultra-wealthy was not enough...
Cheers and jeers, Carl
Yeah you might be right, Colton is still a bit wild at times. Max was given the time to develop and polish the rough edges but he was super young. If Colton is granted that same time seems unlikely. Maybe Alex Palou was more ready but he’s not American of course. They have enough Spaniards in F1… As for Van Eerd, you always wonder why people who already have so much are still tempted to do shady things to have even more. But maybe it’s exactly that mentality that made them rich in the first place. But in all fairness to Van Eerd, he’s not convicted yet so for now not guilty of anything. They released him this evening but he’s still a suspect. |
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Post by René on Sept 20, 2022 21:47:00 GMT
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Post by Carl on Sept 20, 2022 23:00:24 GMT
If he doesn't win the championship this year, driving classic F1 Ferraris to his heart's content is damn fine consolation. I remember this one well, with the spaghetti exhaust rising with menace between the cylinder banks and driven wonderfully by Chris Amon and Jacky Ickx. Because Formula One came no closer than Bowmanville, Ontario, east of Tornonto, I never got to see one, but imagination can work wonders...  |
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