|
|
Post by Jamie on Nov 22, 2017 20:32:27 GMT
Gents,
How do we feel about the possible return of the Alfa Romeo name to Grand Prix racing (a sticker on recent Ferrari's doesn't count)?
Is this badge engineering / marketing at its worst or the welcome return of a Grandee Marque.......?
For me it would be a very hollow return with Alfa simply etched on the cam-covers instead of Ferrari, but the Alfa name is such a strong draw for me.....more evocative than Ferrari even??
I'd be interested to hear fellow round table racers opinions.
|
|
|
|
Post by chrisb on Nov 22, 2017 21:21:36 GMT
when I think of Alfa - I think gorgeous looking, gorgeous sounding and wonderfully unreliable, which to me was part of Alfa's beauty but in modern F1? this is a magical marque that I would feel has no place in today's F1, but more evocative than Ferrari? not sure on that one Jamie,
|
|
|
|
Post by Jamie on Nov 22, 2017 21:29:16 GMT
Wonderfully unreliable......this made me laugh Chris 👍
I didn’t think I’d get any agreement regarding Alfa being a more evocative Marque than Ferrari 😁, but that’s just me. That Alfa name just stirs my blood - but it being cynically daubed on a Ferrari unit....not so much.
My ideal for Alfa would be a sports car campaign, a DPI in IMSA would be great.
|
|
|
|
Post by René on Nov 22, 2017 22:49:49 GMT
Mixed feelings there Jamie. I love the Alfa Romeo brand and have been an avid Alfa driver for many years. Also my first Grand Prix visit in 1979 was also Alfa's come back race of which I have clear memories. Seeing them back in Formula 1 would be great, but.... would it be really Alfa with a rebranded Sauber and a year old Ferrari engine? Hmmmm.  The Alfa name more evocative than Ferrari? No!There is not much more evocative than Alfa for sure but Ferrari is. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2017 8:04:53 GMT
I don't like it all. They will be Ferrari engines re-badged - they won't certainly start to design a new engine from scratch - and they won't possibly be allowed to challenge the main brand of the group.
If Marchionne really cares about the Alfa Romeo brand as he says (after having shut down Lancia), he should find another category where the name could be revived, for example Le Mans, much as Audi have done, or elsewhere (Indy? seen all the publicity they do on American car magazines).
I find it very sad. |
|
|
|
Post by chrisb on Nov 23, 2017 20:34:15 GMT
it is sad, I adore Alfa Romeo, their road cars are exquisite and I nearly fell of the motorbike last year when touring the Alps and I saw the SUV version, I do wonder if the designer is on drugs or something it really was that beautiful, oh for money,
I was wondering where I would place Alfa in racing circles, if I could have a lot of grunt then LMP2 with a thirsty raucous V12 would be brilliant, saloon car racing would be great even rallying would be preferable, but probably GT racing up against the Bentleys. the Astons etc but maybe with a bit more profile would be my preference
|
|
|
|
Post by Jamie on Nov 23, 2017 20:57:56 GMT
it is sad, I adore Alfa Romeo, their road cars are exquisite and I nearly fell of the motorbike last year when touring the Alps and I saw the SUV version, I do wonder if the designer is on drugs or something it really was that beautiful, oh for money, I was wondering where I would place Alfa in racing circles, if I could have a lot of grunt then LMP2 with a thirsty raucous V12 would be brilliant, saloon car racing would be great even rallying would be preferable, but probably GT racing up against the Bentleys. the Astons etc but maybe with a bit more profile would be my preference I think thats a good shout Chris. I would like to see them in IMSA with a DPI as prototype sportscar racing is my first love and, like yourself, I adore Alfa Romeo (I think the Giulia will be my next road car). It seems that we are all in agreement that a re-badged Ferrari engine is not an ideal way for Alfa to be represented in F1. No chance of winning is not something befitting of Alfa Romeo. Just to be certain, when I spoke of Alfa being more evocative than Ferrari, it was very much from my perspective only - I realise I am in a tiny minority here 😆😆 |
|
|
|
Post by René on Nov 23, 2017 23:31:52 GMT
I realise I am in a tiny minority here 😆😆 On thin ice you mean...  |
|
|
|
Post by mikael on Nov 24, 2017 1:59:56 GMT
For Red Bull the concept of a senior team and a junior teams seems to work well and to be an efficient concept. Such a concept might be good for Ferrari too (and Haas is not really a Ferrari junior team).
I am aware of Alfa Romeo's glorious racing history, but considering that Ferrari has established itself as the premier brand while Alfa Romeo has concentrated on producing, mostly, "affordable" sports cars / sporty cars, I don't think it would be a humiliation for the Alfa Romeo marque if it would be contemplated as a B-team to Ferrari. Actually I think it would be of good commercial value for Alfa Romeo to be in F1 in that way.
Regarding the commercial value of being in F1 for a manufacturer, please allow me to state a few thoughts about Honda's situation. Personally, I don't think that their "tribulations" are damaging to the brand - quite on the contrary. I find it much more admirable that they give it a try - and not give up easily - than if they didn't dare to try at all. And since the level is so high, it's an honorable thing just to be in F1. It's more honorable to fight for a 10th place in F1 than to fight for 1st place in a lower category - just as it's the case for the drivers.
While Mercedes' slogan is "Das Beste oder nichts" (The best or nothing), I believe that often, something somewhat less than that has value too.
|
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Nov 24, 2017 4:21:12 GMT
Mikael,
My understanding is that Honda was pressured by McLaren to enter the hybrid technology madhouse a year earlier than Honda had planned. That can easily have landed its engine development program permanently behind. Honda should have said no. I would love to be able to hear the back and forth between Honda and McLaren that drew Honda in. Ron Dennis can be demanding and insulting when challenged.
Mercedes had a head start because it realized the complexities involved and has since maintained its advantage. I really think Formula One would be more enjoyable for the fans without so much complication under the engine cover.
Cheers, Carl
|
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Nov 24, 2017 4:41:11 GMT
Both have had their days in the sun. I agree that Alfa-Romeo should retain its proud sovereign heritage and work its way up to Formula One rather than be junior to Ferrari. Prototypes or even F3 are both high-profile and serious testing grounds. If the man being devoured by the dragon on the Alfa-Romeo emblem is meant to be Sergio Marchionne, Alfa is courting trouble and should go its own way. But I approve. Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2017 6:09:17 GMT
No other marque is more evocative than Ferrari, but it will be something strange. You know, Scuderia Ferrari running Alfas(with great succes) from 1930 to 1937, now Ferrari Power Units with Alfa badge.
P.S. The Ferrari Cavalino badge appeared for the first time on an Alfa at Spa 24H race in 1932.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jamie on Nov 24, 2017 6:57:32 GMT
I realise I am in a tiny minority here 😆😆 On thin ice you mean... 😂😂 I shall be on the look out for snipers on the way to work this morning...... By way of recompense, I should explain that I quite often work in central London and today I’m going to take a route past the design museum to book my ticket for the rather excellent looking Ferrari exhibition that Lucio alerted us too.....I do love Ferrari you see, I just love Alfa a little bit more 😁 |
|
|
|
Post by chrisb on Nov 24, 2017 7:56:54 GMT
and whilst you lovers of Italian beauty and grace continue I still like Lotus.....
Mikael and Carl, Yes the Mercedes worked it out better - but the difference for me is if you 'generally' look at motor racing history of new rules, you maybe get one or two years of domination - not 4, and that is where I think F1 got stuck, with regards to Honda being pressurised by McLaren - I am not surprised by that , Ron et al were pretty ruthless negotiators and are paying the price, ironically it looks more like the Honda engine is improving as it did in 1965/7 and may well be a winner before McLaren,
my question would be - and I think your point is spot on Mikael, I would rather a company who doesn't give up and perseveres as opposed to a one make domination - from a sales point of view, having owned 2 Honda motorbikes when they produce the perfect V4 sports tourer I would have no hesitation to return whilst I would be very unlikely to buy another Merc. an Alfa very probably...
|
|
|
|
Post by robmarsh on Nov 24, 2017 9:04:54 GMT
Carl wrote "If the man being devoured by the dragon on the Alfa-Romeo emblem is meant to be Sergio Marchionne, Alfa is courting trouble and should go its own way. But I approve."
I never ever noticed there was a man being devoured by a dragon until now and I love Alfa's. Thanks Carl. WRT to whether Alfa should come in instead of Sauber I would be quite happy with that even if it is seen as a junior Ferrari team. I don't see that as a downside-the last time Alfa beat Ferrari in F1 was 1951 and apart from some sportscar races in 1971 they hardly ever beat Ferrari since then when racing in the same events. So to my mind there is nothing wrong with them coming in. An Alfa branded car has to be better looking than the current very boring looking Sauber. Go for it I say. I also think that if Alfa entered Le Mans as an LMP1/2 that would be perfect.
|
|
