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Post by mikael on Jul 8, 2020 17:47:34 GMT
I wonder if the positioning of the rider much more over the front of the bike was initiated by the riders them selves or brought about by the design of the later motocross bikes.
JC,
yes, I guess I'm particularly prone to always going out along tangents. But yes, it's really nice that we have the freedom to do so here on this great forum.
I do think that the change in style was something that was initiated by the riders themselves, in Supercross. As I understand it, the point was to get the wheels down as early as possible after having been in the air, in order to maximize the "traction". And if a jump was immediately followed by a turn (as was often the case in stadium motocross), then it was best to get the front wheel down as soon as possible, in order to control the direction. I think that the Supercross riders also became extremely good in finding a fast rhythm across "washboard" sections.
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Post by chrisb on Jul 8, 2020 21:04:34 GMT
Carl, I remember reading about this somewhere else and I cannot remember where but the accusations were made by someone respected about what happened to Eddie.
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Post by Carl on Jul 9, 2020 6:54:59 GMT
Carl, I remember reading about this somewhere else and I cannot remember where but the accusations were made by someone respected about what happened to Eddie. Chris, Eddie Sachs was extremely popular and there were doubts about the effort made to extract him, although he'd been killed instantly and his body trapped in his car, doubt reinforced by uncertainty whether he died from burns, smoke inhalation or blunt force trauma.
If there was blame, it would have been directed at the dangerous imbalance of the Mickey Thompson entry driven by Dave McDonald, but fatal accidents were more accepted then and blame was not assessed. |
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Post by charleselan on Jul 9, 2020 12:58:52 GMT
Carl, I remember reading about this somewhere else and I cannot remember where but the accusations were made by someone respected about what happened to Eddie. Chris, Eddie Sachs was extremely popular and there were doubts about the effort made to extract him, although he'd been killed instantly and his body trapped in his car, doubt reinforced by uncertainty whether he died from burns, smoke inhalation or blunt force trauma.
If there was blame, it would have been directed at the dangerous imbalance of the Mickey Thompson entry driven by Dave McDonald, but fatal accidents were more accepted then and blame was not assessed. Carl, I have only just read a few details about this accident and it would appear that the new regulation stipulating bigger wheel diameters that year rather messed up the concept of the Thompson car. I wonder if Dave McDonald was maybe too brave for his own good and persisted in the car when he should have pitted the thing. No slight intended for Dave, but possibly a more circumspect driver might have called it a day. John Charles |
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Post by charleselan on Jul 9, 2020 13:05:55 GMT
I wonder if the positioning of the rider much more over the front of the bike was initiated by the riders them selves or brought about by the design of the later motocross bikes.
JC,
yes, I guess I'm particularly prone to always going out along tangents. But yes, it's really nice that we have the freedom to do so here on this great forum.
I do think that the change in style was something that was initiated by the riders themselves, in Supercross. As I understand it, the point was to get the wheels down as early as possible after having been in the air, in order to maximize the "traction". And if a jump was immediately followed by a turn (as was often the case in stadium motocross), then it was best to get the front wheel down as soon as possible, in order to control the direction. I think that the Supercross riders also became extremely good in finding a fast rhythm across "washboard" sections.
Mikael, Nothing like going off in tangents, that is what makes this place so random and enjoyable at times. It is interesting to note that you observations about riding style in Supercross changed bike design for MX. I also believe it was this that also changed the landscape of the MX circuits, making them more like large outdoor Supercross tracks with all the man made sections. When I first went to Scrambles and then Motocross in the 1950's and then on into the 60's/70's the tracks were very much laid out over natural terrain, more akin nowadays to Enduro events. JC |
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Post by Carl on Jul 9, 2020 15:57:05 GMT
Chris, Eddie Sachs was extremely popular and there were doubts about the effort made to extract him, although he'd been killed instantly and his body trapped in his car, doubt reinforced by uncertainty whether he died from burns, smoke inhalation or blunt force trauma.
If there was blame, it would have been directed at the dangerous imbalance of the Mickey Thompson entry driven by Dave McDonald, but fatal accidents were more accepted then and blame was not assessed. Carl, I have only just read a few details about this accident and it would appear that the new regulation stipulating bigger wheel diameters that year rather messed up the concept of the Thompson car. I wonder if Dave McDonald was maybe too brave for his own good and persisted in the car when he should have pitted the thing. No slight intended for Dave, but possibly a more circumspect driver might have called it a day. John Charles John Charles, Yes, exactly right. The car had been avoided by more experienced drivers and the rookie was eager to be in the race and certainly too brave too soon. He may have had an unwarranted faith in Mickey Thompson and USAC. Both were a great loss.
-Carl
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Post by charleselan on Jul 9, 2020 19:15:12 GMT
Carl, I have only just read a few details about this accident and it would appear that the new regulation stipulating bigger wheel diameters that year rather messed up the concept of the Thompson car. I wonder if Dave McDonald was maybe too brave for his own good and persisted in the car when he should have pitted the thing. No slight intended for Dave, but possibly a more circumspect driver might have called it a day. John Charles John Charles, Yes, exactly right. The car had been avoided by more experienced drivers and the rookie was eager to be in the race and certainly too brave too soon. He may have had an unwarranted faith in Mickey Thompson and USAC. Both were a great loss.
-Carl
Carl, It was just an observation made from my earlier readings about the situation, a truly terrible accident and one that should never have happened. I have watched a number of drivers and motorcycle racers who have brought their machines into the pits as they feel something was not right. As you say Dave McDonald was probably too inexperienced and eager to race, and then jut pressed on regardless. He was not alone in that regard either before or after. John Charles |
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Post by mikael on Jul 9, 2020 20:12:23 GMT
JC,
I agree that motocross of recent years have been turned into scaled-up Supercross events - by the (World Championship) Grand Prix's complete with fireworks by the finish-line, etc. It's a real pity ... It seems that, in general, tracks and circuits that were designed to provide "good entertainment" rarely are able to truly deliver that. The phrase "less is more" almost always holds true ...
Best Mikael
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Post by Carl on Jul 9, 2020 21:47:04 GMT
John Charles, Yes, exactly right. The car had been avoided by more experienced drivers and the rookie was eager to be in the race and certainly too brave too soon. He may have had an unwarranted faith in Mickey Thompson and USAC. Both were a great loss.
-Carl
Carl, It was just an observation made from my earlier readings about the situation, a truly terrible accident and one that should never have happened. I have watched a number of drivers and motorcycle racers who have brought their machines into the pits as they feel something was not right. As you say Dave McDonald was probably too inexperienced and eager to race, and then jut pressed on regardless. He was not alone in that regard either before or after. John Charles John Charles, Your observation was spot-on, as they say in England. The new regulations changed an already challenging car to borderline dangerous. Starting 20th, on the first lap McDonald passed into 15th, a furious pace by an extraordinary natural talent, but in a dangerous handling car more experienced drivers had refused, and for the first time with a full fuel load. He unwisely chose to reach too far for the brass ring. -Carl |
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Post by charleselan on Dec 31, 2020 17:29:47 GMT
I have just read the news that Oscar Kovaleski has passed away in the past week. A long time and successful privately entered Can Am competitor, with some wonderfully iconic liveried cars over the years.
Maybe Carl could write a few more words on Oscar?
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Post by René on Dec 31, 2020 18:46:06 GMT
Thanks for letting us know JC. May he rest in peace.  |
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Post by Carl on Dec 31, 2020 19:16:16 GMT
I have just read the news that Oscar Kovaleski has passed away in the past week. A long time and successful privately entered Can Am competitor, with some wonderfully iconic liveried cars over the years. Maybe Carl could write a few more words on Oscar? My memories of Oscar Koveleski center on his wonderful personality and great sense of humor. The article below is an excellent overview of road racing's clown prince, the much loved equivalent of Eddie Sachs at Indianapolis. I hadn't known that he founded his longtime sponsor, Autoworld, and was a powerful player in scale models.
The exclusive Polish Racing Drivers of America had stringent membership requirements: to be Polish and a race driver or not Polish and not a race driver, or any combination. My application was turned down several times. 
Oscar was never at the front in Can-Am 
 But he was serious about racing and loved the sport.
Rest in peace, Oscar.
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Post by robmarsh on Jan 1, 2021 16:56:14 GMT
I see Aldo Andretti, Mario's twin brother also died yesterday. What a horrible year 2020 has been for deaths of iconic people. It has stripped away a whole generation of heroes for me. May they all Rest in Peace and my condolences to their families.
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Post by charleselan on Jan 2, 2021 17:45:21 GMT
It seems that so many have passed away in 2020, and from all walks of life, a truly terrible year indeed. Excellent material on Oscar there Carl, I just love that photo go him with the high mounted wing on his helmet, that is one brilliant bit of humour, did he race with it  . |
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Post by Carl on Jan 2, 2021 17:56:48 GMT
It seems that so many have passed away in 2020, and from all walks of life, a truly terrible year indeed. Excellent material on Oscar there Carl, I just love that photo go him with the high mounted wing on his helmet, that is one brilliant bit of humour, did he race with it . No, but others were intrigued   |
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