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Post by robmarsh on Jul 19, 2021 21:22:54 GMT
Chris a lot of politicians play the racial polarising game as part of their quest for power. In South Africa last week it actually backfired on some of them because when the riots and looting were at their worst and law enforcement agencies were stretched past their capacities, local communities banded together to protect their suburbs. You thus had people across all races and religions forgetting their differences and uniting together for a common cause. When people have done that in times of danger an understanding bond is formed. This can only have a positive influence on things going forward.
We still need to have that cup of tea sometime soon.
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Post by charleselan on Jul 20, 2021 14:35:11 GMT
Just a few points here chaps.
For me motor sport both two and four wheeled transcends all forms of nationalistic stupidity, my favourite drivers/riders have never been determined by their nationality. I loathed the British GP's when we had Hunt and Mansell being pumped up by the venal UK press, Brands Hatch in 1976 was the most unpleasant Grand prix I ever attended very hot sunshine and booze fuelled the whole darn thing.
The most pleasant in that respect was Wattie's win at Silverstone in 1981, that was genuine affection for a great driver, and the same was probably true for Johnny Herbert which was long after I stopped going.
Talking about the differences in the RB and MB cars at last weekends F1 race, the C4 team mentioned that RB had put on more rear wing at Silverstone which made the car vulnerable on Hanger Straight, obviously they ere looking to maximise the performance in the bendy bits. MB had apparently taken off their rear wing angle and also done something with how they deployed the motive power entering the straight, thus making it strong on that part of the circuit.
It is also interesting to note that a lot of people were saying that Max is I quote "a very aggressive driver", SLH and the MB team all joined in that argument which is an attempt at excusing what happened. I agree that Max was very aggressive in his early years and on several occasions dangerously so, but of late he has cut this out but remains a hard racer as was Ayrton; Niki; and even JYS, Gilles & Ronnie were firm in their on track attitude when need be. Another point to remember is who currently has the most Penalty Points and it isn't Max.
Today I have read that Charles says it was a "racing accident", but he did say that maybe Max need not have turned in so forcibly and that SLH had much more room to his right and could have used it. Whatever the outcome it means that there will be some burning resentment somewhere and that does not bode well.
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Post by robmarsh on Jul 20, 2021 15:56:10 GMT
I also chose drivers based on their appeal to me, regardless of nationality. In fact the cosmopolitan make-up of the F1 circus was and still is one of the attractions to me. Interestingly enough I have very seldom been a supporter of English drivers. I guess my favourite English drivers would be Peter Collins, Tony Brooks, Damon Hill and Johnny Herbert in years gone by. I preferred James Hunt when he was commentating. I do like Lando Norris and George Russell.
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Post by Carl on Jul 20, 2021 17:59:06 GMT
Because British teams and drivers were central in Grand Prix racing when I became a fan, and still are, many of my favorites have been from Great Britain. Jim Clark, Graham Hill and Jackie Stewart remain special.
It's not easy to root for Americans when so few have successfully made what remains a difficult transition. Many have tried over the years, some have declined, Parnelli Jones for example when offered the second seat at Lotus.
I wanted to cheer for Mark Donohue, stunning in his debut at Mosport in 1971 in the second McLaren, but his later effort in Formula One with Roger Penske was not impressive.
Mario Andretti was one of the greats, fastest qualifier in his first Grand Prix and first time ever at Watkins Glen in 1968, but he was a mercenary in his approach, very self-centered and by his own estimation, more Italian than American.
Peter Revson came close to steady top performance and was due for more success. I was too young during the peak years of Phil Hill, reserved and somewhat neurotic but a superb driver. The standout exception was of course Dan Gurney. Because of his great talent, great effort and success as a constructor, and winning personality, Dan Gurney is the only American I wanted to win everytime.
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Post by robmarsh on Jul 20, 2021 18:04:22 GMT
Yep Dan was a great driver, gentleman and American ambassador
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Post by chrisb on Jul 22, 2021 7:33:13 GMT
a lovely diversion chaps, and so so right motor racing be it cars or bikes has always transcended nationalities and jingoism for so many of us, the world has always been fans of Fangio or Jimmy or Ronnie or Gilles amongst many others, and Dan will always be my favourite American driver, as Bruce my favourite Kiwi and Frank my favourite Aussie and Pete my favourite Englishman as they really epitomised all that was good in life and motor sport,
1976 Brands I enjoyed, although I was on crutches with a broken leg at the time which made for fun leaving, we were on South Bank, but the Mansell mania I detested, it was jingoism and loutish behaviour at its worst and attracted all kind of morons, I remember nearly coming to blows with these Foster fuelled idiots who tried to push their way to the front and all of sudden were 'experts' fortunately there were a number of true fans who pushed these idiots to the back, no manners, I was over the moon for Wattie and remember the ailing Renault that had been leading, in fact I may have some photos of that scene and Wattie overtaking Rene was just so overwhelmingly emotional, it was probably one of the most popular victories I can remember,
the 'accident' incident or coming together remains farcical in my mind, had there not been these huge run-offs although they didn't do a lot of good for Max and they were hemmed in by grass or walls they may have been more cautious about their aggression, or perhaps a wiser pair of drivers would have given each other more room, from what Charles was saying Lewis had more room to move over and Max likewise then it was an unnecessary incident - not a racing one, personally I think it was a psychological move by both about being top-dog and the need to assert one over the other and the cold logic that the likes of JYS would employ was pushed aside for this reason, the point for me it was that it was avoidable, and they didn't because they could
tea sounds a splendid idea Rob,
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Post by charleselan on Jul 22, 2021 13:15:55 GMT
I don't think Mark Donohue was the same driver in 1975 Carl. He had retired and was enticed back which can often be a mistake and the largely European scene of F1 was completely new to him. His debut in the Penske run McLaren M19 was excellent a few years previously and maybe he should have left it at that.
Phil Hill was a wonderfully intelligent man and a superb race driver but always came across as highly strung before a race, and no doubt had every right to be so in those dangerous times. A worthy world champion in 1961, but really in his element in sports cars I feel.
Dan Gurney was just sensational and one of my all time favourite drivers, so few GP wins do not do this guy anywhere near the credit he deserves and makes a mockery of all the crap spouted today about record breaking wins by more recent drivers. In the 1960's there was only one driver better and that was Jim Clark, which Jim acknowledged himself by stating that Dan was the only driver he feared.
Peter Revson was pure class as a driver and although his family were extremely wealthy they played no part in his motor sport career as he earned his place the hard way.
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Post by René on Jul 22, 2021 13:40:12 GMT
For me motor sport both two and four wheeled transcends all forms of nationalistic stupidity, my favourite drivers/riders have never been determined by their nationality. I loathed the British GP's when we had Hunt and Mansell being pumped up by the venal UK press, Brands Hatch in 1976 was the most unpleasant Grand prix I ever attended very hot sunshine and booze fuelled the whole darn thing. When a sports person or- team is successful in a major sport, this always attracts more fans from their respective country. And often people who never followed that sport before, To a certain extend I am fine with that because some of those may actually like the sport and stick around for the future. But it also attracts all kind of nationalistic morons and I’ve experienced that from closeby first wiith Schumacher and then with the Verstappens. From the early 90’s into the 2000’s Spa was flooded with Germans to support Michael. Also for Jos back then lots of support from Dutch fans alhough in no way comparable to the huge following we see now for Max. And again, I understand the enthousiasm but unfortunately this also brings a kind of people and atmosphere that I never experienced before that. Morons and hooligans you would expect at a football match but not at a race track. Not all of them of course but way too many! You won’t see me in an orange shirt!  |
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Post by René on Jul 22, 2021 13:47:24 GMT
Another brilliant drive from Charles at Silverstone. I love the fact they (Ferrari) let him go for it. No protection, no seatbelts and he's not taking it easy. Wonderful.   |
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Post by charleselan on Jul 22, 2021 14:15:22 GMT
Brilliant little film of Charles in the Ferrari 375 and he was indeed working it hard, just wonderful to see his hands and arms flicking the wheel from side to side.
I saw the film on YouTube last evening of the car being completely rebuilt at Maranello, all in Italian with subtitles but very interesting that they have all the detailed records of every car built.
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Post by René on Jul 22, 2021 14:32:38 GMT
Brilliant little film of Charles in the Ferrari 375 and he was indeed working it hard, just wonderful to see his hands and arms flicking the wheel from side to side. I saw the film on YouTube last evening of the car being completely rebuilt at Maranello, all in Italian with subtitles but very interesting that they have all the detailed records of every car built. I am sure driving the 375 must have inspired him for the afternoon race! Passione Ferrari. What a driver, what a guy!  The restore video is on page 1 of the thread btw... |
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Post by charleselan on Jul 22, 2021 16:14:57 GMT
Brilliant little film of Charles in the Ferrari 375 and he was indeed working it hard, just wonderful to see his hands and arms flicking the wheel from side to side. I saw the film on YouTube last evening of the car being completely rebuilt at Maranello, all in Italian with subtitles but very interesting that they have all the detailed records of every car built. I am sure driving the 375 must have inspired him for the afternoon race! Passione Ferrari. What a driver, what a guy! The restore video is on page 1 of the thread btw... No doubt about it René, Charles is one of the best talents I have ever seen, he will be a legend and a great lad too just like some of those that inspired me in the past. |
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Post by Carl on Jul 22, 2021 17:33:42 GMT
I don't think Mark Donohue was the same driver in 1975 Carl. He had retired and was enticed back which can often be a mistake and the largely European scene of F1 was completely new to him. His debut in the Penske run McLaren M19 was excellent a few years previously and maybe he should have left it at that. Phil Hill was a wonderfully intelligent man and a superb race driver but always came across as highly strung before a race, and no doubt had every right to be so in those dangerous times. A worthy world champion in 1961, but really in his element in sports cars I feel. Dan Gurney was just sensational and one of my all time favourite drivers, so few GP wins do not do this guy anywhere near the credit he deserves and makes a mockery of all the crap spouted today about record breaking wins by more recent drivers. In the 1960's there was only one driver better and that was Jim Clark, which Jim acknowledged himself by stating that Dan was the only driver he feared. Peter Revson was pure class as a driver and although his family were extremely wealthy they played no part in his motor sport career as he earned his place the hard way. John, Well said entirely and absolutely right about Mark Donohue. I remember having an ominous sense of dread when he came out of retirement. While his accident at the Osterreichring was not driver error, he was no longer in the same top tier. I always thought he returned against his better judgment out of a sense of loyalty. -Carl |
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Post by Carl on Jul 22, 2021 17:53:22 GMT
a lovely diversion chaps, and so so right motor racing be it cars or bikes has always transcended nationalities and jingoism for so many of us, the world has always been fans of Fangio or Jimmy or Ronnie or Gilles amongst many others, and Dan will always be my favourite American driver, as Bruce my favourite Kiwi and Frank my favourite Aussie and Pete my favourite Englishman as they really epitomised all that was good in life and motor sport, I was over the moon for Wattie and remember the ailing Renault that had been leading, in fact I may have some photos of that scene and Wattie overtaking Rene was just so overwhelmingly emotional, it was probably one of the most popular victories I can remember, Chris, Here are highlights of John Watson's victory...
Cheers, Carl |
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Post by mikael on Jul 23, 2021 6:29:13 GMT
Not related to the British GP - just a comment on the news that Alonso will be present on the F1 grid also next year, at the ripe age of 40.
I find this positive; however, the statistics are not that kind towards `mature' drivers. It seems that one needs to go back to 1994 to find the last GP winner past 40 (Nigel Mansell, Australian GP '94).
But of course, hope springs eternal :-)
Jack Brabham with a false beard and a cane, to celebrate being en route to winning the World Championship at the age of 40, in 1966.
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