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Post by Carl on Jul 17, 2021 23:47:03 GMT
If one of the reasons was to avoid the obsession on tyres and when to stop, I approve. Undercut and overcut should remain tailor shop concepts.  |
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Post by mikael on Jul 18, 2021 9:08:32 GMT
Yes, the sprint race was enjoyable to watch - really "energetic".
Apparently, the Honda engine (or "power plant") has become really strong, finally (and then, they pull out of F1 - again! - what a pity ...). Someone - I don't recall exactly who and where - suggested that Honda's electric parts (battery, motor, etc., but especially the battery) may now be better than those of Mercedes. In some way, it's interesting that you can pick up on the electric side what you possibly are missing on the engine and combustion technology side. And it's a pity that such a "balancing out" of power hasn't happened much earlier.
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Post by mikael on Jul 18, 2021 13:45:04 GMT
From this angle it looks actually quite cool. 
... yes, agreed; but these are really bad news (if what is suggested holds true):
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Post by mikael on Jul 18, 2021 20:44:08 GMT
Just a thought about the modern runoff areas: while we (the fans) dislike them, it's easy to understand that the drivers, mechanics, team principals, etc., don't. (And hence, they're most likely here to stay.) In "the old days", and at "old school circuits" (like, e.g., Suzuka), Leclerc's final running-wide at Copse (at about 280km/h) would most likely have meant over-and-out. While a win - to celebrate the 70th anniversary of the first Ferrari win (just at Silverstone) would have been great, it was very fortunate for Leclerc that he could still take home a 2nd place.
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Post by robmarsh on Jul 19, 2021 7:19:09 GMT
A great drive by Charles Leclerc and the moral victor in my book. That drive way transcended the performance of the car in a manner seldom seen in the modern era and way in excess of anything the "GOATS" currently racing have done in the last seven years.
I feel sorry for Max, that must have been a massive impact which may effect his next few races. Nelson Piquet suffered in silence after his massive shunt at Imola in 1987 but later said it affected him for much of the season. For a person who habitually slept 10 hours a night, Nelson could manage only four for the three months after the accident. His results bear it out, for a man of his ability in that car,he should have won at least two races between Imola in early May and Hungary in middle August. It wasn't just down to Mansell brilliance.
For a person who is supposed to be a fair driver SLH has been involved in at least five comings together with other drivers whilst contesting the top places in a GP. Spa and Spain with Rosberg, Brazil and Austria with Albon and now with Max. I sense a common denominator here. I only recall JYS having one such incident in his career and that was with Regga at the Nurburgring in 1972. I think SLH should have had a stop/go penalty at least and was proud of Jenson Button as he was the only Sky commentator that was prepared to call it for what it was.
There were some good drives down the field by Norris, Alonso and Sainz and Ricciardio is improving. I was hoping George would have finished higher.
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Post by chrisb on Jul 19, 2021 8:12:39 GMT
firstly I thought the so-called sprint race was a waste of time and energy, it did nothing a very good 'open' qualifying session sans gimmicks would have or could have produced, and as I had overdone the sun a bit, oh gosh so welcome though, and the cricket was also on, together with C4 magnanimously showing the race live I thought it would be bad manners not to at least watch the start, and then found myself cheering a Ferrari onto win, whatever next? someone actually taking the blame for some seriously aggressive and in my humblest of opinions over the top defensive and attacking moves, to finish first you must first finish, wasn't it JYS who said that? got it spot on,
I had almost forgotten just how fast and how glued to the road these beasts are, at times it was breathtaking just how stuck they were to the tarmac, in some instances boringly so, these cars are just phenomenal and so so quick, and having not seen a GP live since the inception of this formula they must be incredible to see live, fortunately I won't now as I can imagine 100,000 people will be getting pinged this morning telling them to self-isolate, something that is so baffling from a humanistic perspective - anyway - C4 commentary also played down the incident, and re-played it constantly, I think your point is about right Rob, it does remind me of Michael, fine when unchallenged or winning less so when challenged,
I was gutted Charles didn't win and that would have been poetic justice had he done so, however, I have a feeling this saga isn't quite over yet as I understand fizzy drinks are complaining to the FIA and seeking further penalties, Norris was very good and Valteri must be getting a lot of money for his sacrifices or a good drive next year, we had a lot of good drives but my start of starts was Alonso, that was very impressive and real driving, showing just how to make places up, a lot of people could learn from that, what then dismayed me was just how difficult it was for the McLaren's to overtake him, I was pleased I watched a lot of it, the cricket was mighty and kept distracting me,
what has been dreadful is this outpouring of racism towards Lewis, that is just not right and appalling -
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Post by robmarsh on Jul 19, 2021 9:17:03 GMT
Hi Chris, I haven't seen any racist comments against SLH but I haven't looked and I wont. In any case I agree it is appalling as were the comments against those young England football players last week.
The last two weeks have been pretty rough for me personally due to politically and, in some cases, racially motivated riots in Eswatini(Swaziland) and South Africa. My brother, who supplies basic foodstuffs such as rice, sugar and cooking oil, had a fully laden truck looted and destroyed in Swaziland, worth at least GBP200k which insurance are reluctant to pay out on as they say it was a political riot. South Africa had ZAR Billions of damage done to stores and infrastructure due to looting and burning. I still have a lot of friends there and at least one couple we are close friends with are packing up and moving to the UK asap.
The world is a mess and we don't need racial yobos adding to it.
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Post by René on Jul 19, 2021 9:25:07 GMT
Charles Leclerc's drive was absolutely world class. Ferrari is clearly still improving, also juding from Carlos's race pace, but what Charles showed yesterday was simply phenomenal. Losing the win so close to the finish was heartbraking but there was nothing more he could have done. But what a drive!
That was a massive crash for Max, the biggest in his career so far and luckely he seems okay now. It was an accident bound to happen, not? The first lap up until the crash was breathtaking, so close they were at those speeds but I wasn't surprised it went wrong to be honest. I don't believe it was on purpose by Lewis, he wouldn't do that. But he knew he had to pass Max immediately to have a chance to win. And yes, he's clearly under more pressure now and his move was too opportunistic. Lewis missed the apex, also confirmed by Leclerc who had a front seat view, but still pushed through. And Max is not a driver to give way so... bang! As for the 10 sec penalty, they say it's exactly according to the rule book but it did feel a bit 'light'! 10 seconds for a Mercedes is nothing.
I was a bit amused though by Max's reactions saying Lewis's driving was dangerous and his celebrations were disrespectful and unsportsmanlike. The same Max who made some bold 'over the edge' moves himself not so long ago and the same Max who said in an interview (which I also showed on here) that he thought the Senna-Prost crash at Suzuka 1990 was fantastic and a great move by Senna!
Chris, you are absolutely right about all the racism towards Lewis. That is appalling.
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Post by robmarsh on Jul 19, 2021 9:42:42 GMT
Rene I also thought Max's comments a bit over the top, and he probably would have gained more sympathy if he kept quiet. SLH doesn't think he did anything wrong though which is also of concern. At this rate somebody is going to get seriously hurt especially with Spa, Monza and Suzuka still to come. Maybe they both need to sit in front of the headmaster!
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Post by René on Jul 19, 2021 12:35:21 GMT
Just a thought about the modern runoff areas: while we (the fans) dislike them, it's easy to understand that the drivers, mechanics, team principals, etc., don't. (And hence, they're most likely here to stay.) In "the old days", and at "old school circuits" (like, e.g., Suzuka), Leclerc's final running-wide at Copse (at about 280km/h) would most likely have meant over-and-out. While a win - to celebrate the 70th anniversary of the first Ferrari win (just at Silverstone) would have been great, it was very fortunate for Leclerc that he could still take home a 2nd place. Actually, the drivers also dislike the huge run-offs. They much prefer old school circuits with grass and gravel or even a wall and at several tracks (like Spa) the gravel beds are reintroduced.
As for Leclerc's going wide in defence, I don't believe he would have done that if there was grass or gravel. He would have given in sooner.
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Post by René on Jul 19, 2021 12:38:13 GMT
Rene I also thought Max's comments a bit over the top, and he probably would have gained more sympathy if he kept quiet. SLH doesn't think he did anything wrong though which is also of concern. At this rate somebody is going to get seriously hurt especially with Spa, Monza and Suzuka still to come. Maybe they both need to sit in front of the headmaster! Rob yes, but I assume there was still a lot of adrenaline and emotions in play so I can live with the initial comments. Lewis could have toned down his celebrations a bit though. That was also a bit over the top.
But this race certainly has set the tone for the remainder of the season!
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Post by charleselan on Jul 19, 2021 13:35:28 GMT
Some very good and well reasoned comments above gentlemen, far better than the vitriol shouted out on some other sites. It does not really matter who one supports as a driver, but racing ethics to me is the most important aspect no matter who the driver may be.
I viewed via both the rare live coverage by the UK C4 feed and S*YF1 and the contrast between the two was profound regarding the "coming together" at Copse. Interestingly the world feed showed a clip of Senna & Prost in 1993 quite by chance in the build up to the race at exactly the same place, with Alain lining up Ayrton to do the same move as SLH on Max. On that occasion Alain baled out and allowed Ayrton the corner but it was very similar.
From what I could see S*YF1 were playing the Uk tabloidesque presentation, "nothing to see here just a racing accident" especially Karun's Race Pad breakdown, all except Jenson Button who was being carefully diplomatic but one knew his true feelings. On C4 both Mark Webber and David Coultard were clear it was a bad move by SLH and that he "went in too hot" and was way off hitting the apex as he was understeering outwards. As you guys know I am no particular fan of either driver but SLH was totally at fault in my opinion, a desperate move at a place you do not stick your nose in and hope. He also lied when he said to his crew "I was in front man" and "he drove into me man". I understand that SpecSavers have approached him as a new feature model in their latest advertising campaign.
SLH's antics after the race were just plain nauseating in my opinion, pumping up his own ego in front of his adoring fans. I have never liked the jingoistic element of the British GP, first with Hunt and then with Mansell; nationalism in motor sport has never been my bag.
The penalty was a joke considering what had happened, just ask yourself the question what if that had been Seb Vettel who pulled that move, or one of the lesser known drivers. As has been mentioned by Rob above I am now worried about any possible consequences should the two come together at Spa; Monza or Suzuka as Max isn't going to let it rest there is he.
I again agree completely with you Rob regarding Charles' drive, that was the most outstanding performance I have seen in the modern era by any driver. The car although improved had no business being in that position at any stage and the first stint was truly incredible made even more so by the engine fault Charles was experiencing. He deserved that win more than anything and in reality was robbed, yet I doubt that 70% of the crowd there would have any idea what young Leclerc had done in that race.
Carlos Sainz also deserved far better as he drove a fine race only for it to be ruined by the sticking left front wheel in his pit stop. Lando Norris was also once more superb although the Mclaren's were not quite as good as hoped. Alonso was back to his feisty best and is obviously enjoying himself once more which is good to see. Also Kimi was having another good race making up for another poor qualifying, shame he lost out towards the end.
Disappointing for George Russell who did not progress at all, the car obviously not as good as it was in the Sprint, and Pierre Gasly was not at ease with his car at all which was a surprise.
Good to see Valterri being the ultimate Eddie Irvine, even down to him saying over the radio that the clash up front was a racing accident; yeh right mate as if you saw it clearly looking through the back of Charles' Ferrari and your mirrors full of Lando.
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Post by robmarsh on Jul 19, 2021 14:26:06 GMT
"SLH's antics after the race were just plain nauseating in my opinion, pumping up his own ego in front of his adoring fans. I have never liked the jingoistic element of the British GP, first with Hunt and then with Mansell; nationalism in motor sport has never been my bag."
Spot on Charles. I totally agree and it's what puts me off English fans at both football and F1 events. So much so that I don't think I will fork out GBP400 to attend such an event.
Mark Hughes makes an interesting point in his MS column that Mercedes and SLH knew that the Honda engine map was causing it to cut out on hanger straight. SLH also tried the outside line at Copse during the sprint race and failed and was angry about it. Coupled with that knowledge and the knowledge about the Honda engine he was determined to go up the inside at Copse. To me that makes it pre-meditated and therefore more deliberate than a racing incident. He also knew that the Red Bull, owing to it's better road holding would soon pull out a lead through the middle section as per the sprint race so was desperate to make the move early.
Despite his obvious skills SLH is not so supreme when under any sort of pressure. Nothing wrong with that, many a top driver has made mistakes under pressure as has just about every world class sportsman in any sport. It is what makes them human and thus endearing. However, to never admit to your mistakes or for your fans to believe it is always someone else's fault becomes just plain nauseating.
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Post by Carl on Jul 19, 2021 18:28:17 GMT
John writes: "SLH's antics after the race were just plain nauseating in my opinion, pumping up his own ego in front of his adoring fans. I have never liked the jingoistic element of the British GP, first with Hunt and then with Mansell; nationalism in motor sport has never been my bag." Well said, both John and Rob, on this subject. It's easy to succumb to the mania of a crowd, normally safely contained in sport, but not always. People have been attacked in the parking lot of Dodger Stadium because they wore the wrong cap and football hooligans would have been welcome in the Brown Shirts. The same mass ignorance and stupidity are the foundations of far-right lunacy worldwide. "If you can keep your head while all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you..."
- Rudyard Kipling
Jenson Button's analysis was careful and reasoned, while everyone else succumbed to hero worship. David Croft carefully described all collisions involving Lewis Hamilton, even ones he caused, as someone else colliding with him, an aura of greatness worthy of a saint. When did idiocy collide with croftee?
Was any elevation of nationalism at Silverstone caused partly because of the great disappointment at Wembley Stadium? Lewis was delighted to turn table and play the role of Great Britain's vanquishing hero, demonstrating that there's no egocentric like an insecure one.
Seeing Harrison Ford and Tom Cruise was enough excitement for one day, but I decided to stay for the second feature. When Ford first appeared, I wondered if he'd been flying over England with top gun Tom and, attracted by the old airfield runways, landed by mistake... 
Cheers, Carl
"Is this a game of chance?"
- rube at the card table
"Not the way I play it. No." - W.C. Fields
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Post by chrisb on Jul 19, 2021 21:09:06 GMT
Hi Rob, that sounds like a dreadful situation and I hope your brother gets his money back, I always try to keep an eye on the problems in South Africa as my Grandfather worked there and my Mother was educated out there, so there will always be an affection for the country if not the current situation. The problem for me is that racism is on the incresae, which is in keeping with histroy, whilst things are bad the 'idiots' will always find someone to blame, other than themselves or those narcissistic imbeciles at Westminster, but this is not the place to describe my sentiments - over a cup of tea would be a better place methinks
as I said previously I was actually hoping that a Ferrari would win, which made me pause, as the last time I wanted that to happen was in 1981...now that is a similarity, the guy just comes across so well and his drive was head and shoulders above, I thought Carlos equally good and unfortunate in the sprint race, which of course set him back. I also saw George interviewed by a young lady and Damon, and George's responses were very good and clever, it will be interesting to see if he and Lewis are at MB next year and whether or not he is the number two, or will he do what Lewis in effect did to Alonso, will he be allowed to, he already has a large following and having some close competition again will rattle Lewis. Talking of which I seem to remember a number of incidents with Felipe
the run off areas intrigues me, especially the difference between motorbike racing where a sensor picks up if you exceed track limits and F1 where it still feels random, whether or not it is I still don't see the punishments handed out, I am pleased to hear the drivers don't like them, neither do I
Like you say John this jingoistic fervour is not to my taste either to put it mildly, in fact I find it as you did nauseating, when I go to a cricket match or a rugby game I see a lot of alcohol being consumed some quite amusing songs and jeers but never have I ever seen any violence, racism or ill behaviour at any of these matches, which brings me to think about my favourite drivers and their nationalities, which includes two Scots, a Swede, a French-Canadian, an American, a New Zealander, two English [Pete and Graham], An Argentinian and an Italian with a Brazilian also there, all but the Brazilian sharing some common traits of fairness and ethical behaviour, in other words all of my favourite rivers throughout history were extremely competitive but with manners and that to me is the difference
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