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Post by Carl on Aug 29, 2020 19:22:39 GMT
Over time most reveal themselves in small but consistent ways. Niki Lauda was a remarkable oddball, logical to a fault and antisocial, but he and I could have been friends because I admire blunt honesty.
Some of the greatest have been the greatest jerks, eagerly embracing false praise from parasites they collect in an entourage while the very best often have no entourage at all. I have great admiration for Jackie Stewart, but will never understand why he once led a parade of celebrities to the grid in Monaco as though in celebration of his own. For goodness sake, Elizabeth Taylor by then was fat and had big hair!
Of the handful I've encountered personally (however briefly), Bruce McLaren, Dan Gurney, John Morton (of Cobra and SCCA fame) and Emerson Fittipaldi were down to earth and genuine, greatness without a trace of conceit.
Excellent comment Carl, and very true. I admire the ability of JYS as a driver and many of the observations that he has made over the years, however his desire to embrace celebrity was not to my taste. His rapturous obsession with the British monarchy is something else that I do not share, but I suppose it was as a result of it being the thing in his period at the top (1960/70's). I could never see Jim Clark indulging in any of that nonsense as he was far more down to earth, even if from somewhat privileged farming stock. The four guys you mention above were great drivers and men and everyone of them would have gladly spared anyone the time with a fan or enthusiast. I often think that Emerson gets a little overlooked today as a great, but he was mighty impressive both at his peak before making the disastrous decision to join his brothers team, and then when he made that amazing comeback in the USA. The little piece with Emerson and Ronnie's daughter Nina in the recent film about Ronnie was one of the most touching moments I have ever seen. My impression of Bruce McLaren comes from his warm smile as we shook hands at Riverside on the uncrowded Thursday before the Can-Am race, but I had an extended conversation with Dan Gurney in Long Beach after the 1980 Grand Prix, about the condition of Clay Regazzoni. We had witnessed Dan's heroic sprint across the track to where Clay was trapped in his car and knew we were in the presence of a very brave man.
John Morton was very forthcoming one early morning outside Sandy's Coffee Shop in Riverside when I asked about the differences between the open-wheel F5000 Lola he'd raced and the rebodied T332 in the new 5 litre Can-Am. He told me the aerodynamics of the Can-Am Lola made it more stable in high-speed corners.
And Emerson Fittipaldi could not have been more gracious when our small group politely hesitated before intruding on his quiet reverie between the Penske transporters after qualifying at Long Beach. His warmth put us immediately at ease, like the others a true gentleman without a trace of conceit.
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Post by robmarsh on Aug 29, 2020 23:16:19 GMT
Rene you asked what it says about Bernie given that Niki and Seb both really liked him. There is a book, by James Eason on F1 in general which gives some interesting views of Bernie that not many people know about. One being that he is quite a caring person, has helped many people with large sums of money and has donated millions to charity. Chase Carey for one has had enough of him and Bernie has lost his favoured status there. I get the impression that he enjoys shit stirring, is not a man to cross or make a fool of but has a very generous heart if he feels the cause is a good one. I think the only person who knows Bernie is Bernie.
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Post by charleselan on Aug 31, 2020 10:52:02 GMT
Ecclestone is a bit of a conundrum isn't he. Absolutely loathed by most real fans and enthusiasts for what he brought about in F1 and also the influence he had in other formulas decline if they challenged the popularity of Grand Prix. Yet he made the sport money that was huge in amounts and the corporations loved him.
There can be little doubt that deep down Ecclestone is a real motor sport fan, but all we see is the used car salesman doing deals, and screw the real fans. The latter is something he never really came to terms with which is trade off with gaining extreme wealth.
His generosity to good causes are largely discrete which in a way is very praiseworthy, however there can be little doubt that he has a very dark side which is not pleasant or noteworthy. None of us are saints and we all have a side to us that at times we should not be proud of, Bernie is no exception.
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Post by Carl on Aug 31, 2020 15:52:46 GMT
I am less forgiving and doubt ecclestone has much self-awareness that's not delusional. Some in the sport may have liked him because he would cultivate favor using his power and position. Admiring ruthlessness in all endeavors, his favorite drivers were seldom penalized despite having damaged the integrity of the sport.
He may at one time have loved the sport, may once have loved life, may once even have been innocent, but it all turned bitter and vindictive. He abandoned honor and sold to the highest bidder for the lowest reasons, degrading the sport to further enrich himself.
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Post by René on Sept 1, 2020 11:39:40 GMT
Rene you asked what it says about Bernie given that Niki and Seb both really liked him. There is a book, by James Eason on F1 in general which gives some interesting views of Bernie that not many people know about. One being that he is quite a caring person, has helped many people with large sums of money and has donated millions to charity. Chase Carey for one has had enough of him and Bernie has lost his favoured status there. I get the impression that he enjoys shit stirring, is not a man to cross or make a fool of but has a very generous heart if he feels the cause is a good one. I think the only person who knows Bernie is Bernie. Thanks Rob, sounds like an interesting read.
Bernie, a unique character for sure. I think charm is an important feature of a con man.
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Post by charleselan on Sept 1, 2020 11:50:13 GMT
I am less forgiving and doubt ecclestone has much self-awareness that's not delusional. Some in the sport may have liked him because he would cultivate favor using his power and position. Admiring ruthlessness in all endeavors, his favorite drivers were seldom penalized despite having damaged the integrity of the sport.
He may at one time have loved the sport, may once have loved life, may once even have been innocent, but it all turned bitter and vindictive. He abandoned honor and sold to the highest bidder for the lowest reasons, degrading the sport to further enrich himself.
Carl, There is no forgiveness in my words about Ecclestone, I despise what he did to Grand Prix car racing and the influence he brought to bear on damaging other series like Group C and Touring Cars. All the supposed good that he does behind the scenes in no way exonerates him from all of the crap that he has foisted upon the sport we all love. It is interesting to note that all of the drivers that liked, or got along with, him were/are very strong minded and powerful personalities Niki; Sebastian and Jochen Rindt. I bet his negotiations with Niki were something to behold. On another front I think I am correct in saying that Gilles couldn't stand him, or Moseley for that matter. John Charles |
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Post by chrisb on Sept 3, 2020 6:32:39 GMT
BCE was once a fan, he was friends with and supported a young driver in the 50's called Stuart Lewis Evans and I think his tragic accident and subsequent death soured BCE's opinion of motor racing, Typically he was as ruthless as they came, but then so were a few others, he saw his opportunity as a true salesman and someone he could link up with who would provide the 'upper class' and lawyer approach with his down-to-earth and grabbed it, the trouble for me was that power became a need for absolute power and the threats to others - the destruction of other series and the need for greed became accepted. But, people did go to him for advice on a regular basis and he was largely respected for his opinions, he was friends with the likes of Chapman and Frank and neither of these were shrinking violets when it cane to being ruthless or single minded.
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Post by mikael on Sept 5, 2020 20:07:15 GMT
I find it simply uninteresting to try to compare drivers across different eras.
Yet I do think that "percentage wins" and "percentage pole positions" has significance.
E.g.
In one sense, being at the right place at the right time is luck. In another sense, to always "happen to" have the best car is a part of the driver's overall ability.
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Post by Carl on Feb 6, 2022 19:04:51 GMT
Poor Ricardo Rodriguez died trying for pole position in Mexico, with family and national honor in mind, at the encouragement of an autocratic father.
He kisses his father's hand before the fatal attempt  |
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Post by René on Feb 7, 2022 17:26:12 GMT
Poor Ricardo Rodriguez died trying for pole position in Mexico, with family and national honor in mind, at the encouragement of an autocratic father.
He kisses his father's hand before the fatal attempt <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button>
Very tragic. Just look how young he is.  |
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Post by charleselan on Feb 7, 2022 19:06:04 GMT
You think Ricardo looks young there René, that was 1961 just think how young he was driving that 1959 Ferrari TR59 at Le Mans. He and Pedro were incredibly young when they came on the scene.   |
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Post by René on Feb 7, 2022 19:37:04 GMT
You think Ricardo looks young there René, that was 1961 just think how young he was driving that 1959 Ferrari TR59 at Le Mans. He and Pedro were incredibly young when they came on the scene. Just kids… but very talented racers. |
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Post by charleselan on Feb 7, 2022 19:40:18 GMT
You think Ricardo looks young there René, that was 1961 just think how young he was driving that 1959 Ferrari TR59 at Le Mans. He and Pedro were incredibly young when they came on the scene. Just kids… but very talented racers. Incredibly so talented, but frighteningly young. |
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Post by Carl on Feb 7, 2022 23:21:40 GMT
Their story is one of great wealth and too much too soon. Both had great natural talent and were driving fast cars in their mid-teens wherever their age would not be questioned. Pedro was a national class winner racing bicycles at the age of 10 and 125cc motorcycle national champion at 12 and 14.
I always admired the sheer speed and class of Pedro Rodriquez, whose death was especially tragic less than a decade after Ricardo's.
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Post by Carl on Jan 17, 2023 18:40:16 GMT
The two greatest of all time in Formula One:
Juan Manuel Fangio reunites with his W196 at Long Beach 
Jim Clark at Silverstone in 1967  |
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