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Post by chrisb on Jun 8, 2020 20:58:14 GMT
I understand that Pete is launching a new book on Shadow and Don Nichols, which i would imagine will be a very interesting read - don't know the cost
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Post by robmarsh on Jun 9, 2020 8:16:28 GMT
I understand that Pete is launching a new book on Shadow and Don Nichols, which i would imagine will be a very interesting read - don't know the cost Thanks Chris, I need to keep my eyes open for that. The Shadow team under Don Nichols always intrigued me and the early cars were beautiful. Loved the Can-Am cars. Once they moved out of the predominately black scheme though my interest waned a lot. Their logo of the spy was special. |
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Post by charleselan on Jun 9, 2020 10:58:08 GMT
Who better than Pete to write about Don Nichols and Shadow, that could well be a very good book to have in the collection.
I agree with you Rob, the all black Shadow cars were something very special to look at, and never the same after the addition sponsors colours began to bedeck them.
In a Podcast on MS a few years ago Tony Southgate admitted that he really should not have joined the Arrows set up and remained at Shadow. I think he was reluctant to join Arrows anyway but was persuaded into going. Some of those Shadow cars he designed were fabulous machines and all they needed was a strong experienced driver to lead the development, and that is why I find Peter Revson's tragic death so painful. Can anyone just imagine Revvie in the DN5, that would have been a formidable combination in anyones eyes.
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Post by chrisb on Jun 9, 2020 19:57:57 GMT
I have Tony Southgate's book although it is some time since I read it, whilst we all know motor racing is dangerous and people do get hurt I got the sense from Tony's comments that he was particularly angry at Peter's death and although my memory is not so good and this is another book of mine that needs replacing wasn't there some sort of structure failing in the suspension?
i too will look at this book - plans for a bigger house may be on hold and clutter may win through as have also bought the Jack Sears book and a few others - want the Fitzpatrick one next and then
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Post by Carl on Jun 10, 2020 3:01:07 GMT
I have Tony Southgate's book although it is some time since I read it, whilst we all know motor racing is dangerous and people do get hurt I got the sense from Tony's comments that he was particularly angry at Peter's death and although my memory is not so good and this is another book of mine that needs replacing wasn't there some sort of structure failing in the suspension? i too will look at this book - plans for a bigger house may be on hold and clutter may win through as have also bought the Jack Sears book and a few others - want the Fitzpatrick one next and then Chris, Your memory remains excellent  Here is Tony Southgate quoted in Motorsport Magazine in 2012: "Revvie was a fabulous easy-going guy, fitted in well, and a very good driver. But tragically he wasn't with us for long. He qualified on row 2 for Argentina and row 3 for Brazil. Then he and I, our chief mechanic Pete Kerr and two other mechanics went down to Kyalami for testing before the South African GP. Revvie was going very well, very happy with the car, and then he didn't come around. We rushed out to the back of the circuit and found the car buried under the Armco on the outside of a quick corner. Peter was already in the ambulance and gone. I phoned the hospital, and they told me I had to go to the morgue and identify him. When the news got out all hell let loose, journalists banging on my hotel door, then the Revson family lawyer arrived and took over. We were using titanium quite a lot on the DN3, which was quite a new material then. Titanium is finicky, it has to be machined smooth and the surface polished, and a ball joint which had some coarse machining on it had failed. There was only one layer of Armco and the car, instead of being deflected or stopped, had gone right under as far as the cockpit. I felt personally responsible. It was a very difficult time. The glamour of Formula 1 had gone, replaced by a sort of loneliness. You just had to work on. Of course I replaced all the titanium components with steel before the next race." |
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Post by robmarsh on Jun 10, 2020 5:55:53 GMT
Tony Southgate's book is a fascinating read.
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Post by robmarsh on Jun 10, 2020 5:59:28 GMT
The Pete Lyons' book on Shadow is advertised on Amazon as being released on 28 July and retailing for GBP66.
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Post by charleselan on Jun 10, 2020 17:34:03 GMT
Titanium was not a good material for use at that time especially in a structural sense. I have mentioned this before that during the mid 1960's the UK motorcycle manufacturer BSA in attempt to build a lighter 500cc motocross machine used titanium for the frame(chassis). This was their response to the growing threat from big two stroke engined machines in trying to keep the four stroke BSA engine competitive.
The big issue came when it was found that the constant flexing of the frame in competition actually work hardened the material and caused it to fracture. Back in those times the bikes and riders would be away from the factory for weeks on end as they travelled from one meeting to another in Europe and Russia. The travelling mechanics would attempt to weld the titanium frame on site little understanding at that time that titanium needed to be welded in a sterile and clean environment, hence even more problems.
BSA returned to Reynolds 531 steel tubing for the frames on subsequent models.
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Post by chrisb on Jun 10, 2020 20:03:10 GMT
can't quite remember where, what or who but someone else tried titanium in F1, but cannot remember?
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Post by robmarsh on Jun 10, 2020 20:11:01 GMT
I worked for the Research Labs at Anglo American and they were looking into Titanium for use in car bodies etc because of it's strength and lightness. This was in the latter part of the naughties. They missed the boat as by then carbon fibre was a much better alternative to most things. There was a Can-Am car called the Ti22 (Titanium's periodic table number) that Jackie Oliver drove between 1969 and 1971. It raced under the number 22 and was quite competitive bar the McLaren's. I think that was designed by Tony Southgate as well.
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Post by charleselan on Jun 10, 2020 21:29:27 GMT
You must be referring to the Peter Bryant Autocoast Ti22 there Rob. Designed and run by Englishman Peter Bryant. The car had titanium sheet monocoque and was a very pretty car indeed. It ran very competitively driven by Jackie Oliver.
Incidentally I note that MS have the Shadow/Don Nichols book advertised at £75 and no indication initially that it is for pre-order which is a bit naughty I feel.
Chris, I think that the lightweight Eagle Weslake had some titanium as well as the dreaded magnesium in its construction.
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Post by Carl on Jun 10, 2020 22:27:29 GMT
I worked for the Research Labs at Anglo American and they were looking into Titanium for use in car bodies etc because of it's strength and lightness. This was in the latter part of the naughties. They missed the boat as by then carbon fibre was a much better alternative to most things. There was a Can-Am car called the Ti22 (Titanium's periodic table number) that Jackie Oliver drove between 1969 and 1971. It raced under the number 22 and was quite competitive bar the McLaren's. I think that was designed by Tony Southgate as well. The Ti-22 was the brainchild of another English designer, Peter Bryant, and a crowd favorite because, well driven by Jackie Oliver, it was so close to the speed of Bruce McLaren and Denny Hulme. Everyone admired Team McLaren's organization, preparation and sheer speed, but also wanted competition. Peter Bryant was uniquely brilliant but consistent budgetary support somehow evaded him, a damn shame.
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Post by Carl on Jun 11, 2020 4:02:59 GMT
This may be a good time for Pete Lyons' account of his wild lap of Riverside in a Team McLaren M8F driven by Peter Revson:
"From the pits, the first corner is Turn 2, a 120-odd-mph right-hander entering a little valley which holds the esses. From the track you can’t see all around 2; it vanishes between dun-colored slopes. The track is a dark grey band, and on it is a black arc. You know that arc is your lifeline. You must hit it precisely. It’s all shooting back at you like falling off a mountain. It looks narrow. It’s arriving very fast. Too fast, really, to think about. The engine’s throb eases. Revson’s hands presses the wheel. The McLaren has darted around. It was over like the lash of a whip. For one instant there was a bucket-on-a-rope sensation, then that huge engine was driving again and we were straight. That was the only moment in the entire ride I felt any apprehension. That magnificent automobile had shrugged off that curve with such contempt that I surrendered myself completely. No twinge of doubt about the car’s abilities ever formed again. I relaxed. The aerodynamics squash the car to the road, and it changes direction like a puma chasing a rabbit. Slashing through the esses is like being attacked on both sides at once."
Now exiting Turn 8 onto the one mile long back straight:
"A great hammer struck my spine, slamming my head back. I forced it down, and stared at the long black roadway between the orange wheel bulges. It was rushing like some demonic torrent frantic to enter the gates of hell. Small markings - stains, patches, pebbles – appeared as flickers and were gone like dust on a cine film. There was no longer any sensation of speed. We were going too fast. A bridge flashed overhead like an aircraft’s shadow. The wide straight kinked to the left. Still absolutely on full bore, the McLaren bent into it. The world tilted on edge. To hold myself away from the driver’s arms, I had to strain any tendon. Just ahead, the world ended in a boilerplate wall. The last time I had seen the tachometer, it had been showing 6600. That had been 184mph, but Peter Revson’s foot had been hard down ever since. I couldn’t look at it now. The car was like an insane bull. My eyes were stuck on that wall.
The brakes are the most phenomenal feature. Flying down into Turn 9, aiming squarely at that boilerplate wall at 190mph, Revvie’s right leg makes one strong pumping movement, and a tremendous force, like a giant octopus, tries to suck me down into the footwell. There is a shattering bellow going on, which I feel as much as hear. I feel it in my chest. Everything behind me seems to be trying to push through to the front of me. The start/finish straight is nothing before such acceleration; it hurls back at us like a snapped rubber band."
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Post by chrisb on Jun 11, 2020 5:58:30 GMT
wonderful Carl, that was so realistic, having been driven by a rally star - the difference between mere mortals and those who can is a gulf of talent
yes that was it John, the Eagle, now i remember, thanks - talking of books i am still looking for a good deal on a book on Dan, baulking at the price of the £150 for Karl Ludvigsen's book as excellent as it may be but that is a lot of money
Rob, great story
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Post by robmarsh on Jun 11, 2020 8:36:46 GMT
Thanks Charles, Chris and Carl, the C wise men. You are right it was Peter Bryant. I read both the Tony Southgate book and the Peter Bryant book at the same time and got a bit confused. Pete Bryant's book is also a worthwhile read.
GBP150 is a lot of money. I am not sure if the publishers have realised yet that the world's spending patterns may have irrevocably changed and people wont be spending money in the same fashion as before.
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