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Post by chrisb on Apr 4, 2020 9:27:17 GMT
I received with some gratitude this month's magazine, with a wonderful cover of Ayrton flame spitting McLaren Honda an the headline of F1 at 70
for a company to churn out such a high quality magazine with some very good journalism in it in these troubled times is pretty impressive, and Jo Dunn's opening edit "F1 must consider where it wants to be in a dramatically altered world" is a good start and maybe a subject we could look at?
there are some good articles from Mark and Mat as usual - Mat writes about Scott and what his upbringing was like and the choices he made as a young person and concurs that Scott has a good chance of being champion this year, what I like about Scott's riding over the past year or so is his intelligence, he is working things out and that marks out a champion in my mind - although no mention of Iannone and his ban
but then, an unforgivable mistake, apparently they made one last month as well, but a picture of the 1967 Italian GP is identified as the 1965 race, emailed them my disgust
Connor and Derek Daly talk and lunch is with Christian Horner which I haven't read yet and then the main feature
Doug Nye wrote of the 50's, Nigel the 60's, Maurice the 70's, Paul Fearnley the 80's, Simon Arron the 90's Mark the 00's and Andrew Benson the 10's
not a bad collection of journalists I think, Although not a favourite amongst many I do miss Nigel's writing whether I agreed or not I had an opinion - I just say well done MS for so many very good journalists - thank you
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Post by charleselan on Apr 4, 2020 19:55:58 GMT
Excellent review, thanks Chris. It appears to be a good copy and more in keeping with MS of old from what you describe.
Interesting to hear that Oxley has written about Scott's beginnings, obviously I have some knowledge myself about such things as i enlightened you some time back. The boy has done well considering many things and we must also give credit to his father Adrian and uncle Daryl who have done a lot for him respectively.
Personally I can see that Scott has become much more rounded these past two years, and I have read the other day that Ducati are very pleased to have him back in the fold, and are full of praise for him. It would be brilliant if he did win the WSBK title when it starts up again which would look impressive on his resumé following on from the BSB title.
Going back to MotoGP would have to be right, but the nagging issue I have is the fact that he is just too big a guy for that series the way it is currently, he would be at a disadvantage from the beginning because of that.
Moving on I browsed the automobilsport-magazine site last evening to see what was in their latest issue. They have a big thing on the 1970 season as a main feature plus an interview with Emerson Fittipaldi focusing on his time at Team Lotus. He talks about how helpful Jochen Rindt was to him in 1970, and the fact that he went from Formula Ford to F1 all in one season (impressive) and the Lotus 72.
Just as an aside I saw a good little clip on YouTube last night featuring JYS demonstrating Dan Gurney's Eagle Weslake at Goodwood. He spoke beautifully about Dan and what a great and universally loved guy he was. Not surprisingly JYS was lost in the cockpit of the car designed to fit the 6 foot plus Mr Gurney. The car incidentally looked more glorious than ever, and praise be had its original sized roll over bar.
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Post by Carl on Apr 4, 2020 22:35:18 GMT
Excellent review, thanks Chris. It appears to be a good copy and more in keeping with MS of old from what you describe. Interesting to hear that Oxley has written about Scott's beginnings, obviously I have some knowledge myself about such things as i enlightened you some time back. The boy has done well considering many things and we must also give credit to his father Adrian and uncle Daryl who have done a lot for him respectively. Personally I can see that Scott has become much more rounded these past two years, and I have read the other day that Ducati are very pleased to have him back in the fold, and are full of praise for him. It would be brilliant if he did win the WSBK title when it starts up again which would look impressive on his resumé following on from the BSB title. Going back to MotoGP would have to be right, but the nagging issue I have is the fact that he is just too big a guy for that series the way it is currently, he would be at a disadvantage from the beginning because of that. Moving on I browsed the automobilsport-magazine site last evening to see what was in their latest issue. They have a big thing on the 1970 season as a main feature plus an interview with Emerson Fittipaldi focusing on his time at Team Lotus. He talks about how helpful Jochen Rindt was to him in 1970, and the fact that he went from Formula Ford to F1 all in one season (impressive) and the Lotus 72. Just as an aside I saw a good little clip on YouTube last night featuring JYS demonstrating Dan Gurney's Eagle Weslake at Goodwood. He spoke beautifully about Dan and what a great and universally loved guy he was. Not surprisingly JYS was lost in the cockpit of the car designed to fit the 6 foot plus Mr Gurney. The car incidentally looked more glorious than ever, and praise be had its original sized roll over bar. John Charles, I will read Mat Oxley post haste. Your relative has become more than relatively famous.  It's a shame that his size presents the same disadvantage faced by Dan Gurney.
This is the clip you mentioned and it's excellent, the Spa winner needing only a bit more throttle from a triple world champion who surely remembers how to go fast!
I spoke briefly with Dan Gurney at Long Beach following the 1980 Grand Prix. He was normally there as one of the founders of the Long Beach Grand Prix. My friend and I had earlier witnessed the terrifying accident when Clay Regazzoni's brake pedal snapped as he approached the second hairpin at 190 mph. We also saw the immediate response by Gurney as he jumped over the inside barrier and ran across a wide expanse of track to the escape road where Regazzoni was trapped in his Ensign.
Sensing our concern was genuine after the race when we bumped into him and asked about Regazzoni, Dan told us Clay was badly injured but alive and could talk. I remember being in awe as we talked. When we had seen him earlier boldly act without hesitation to assist a badly injured driver, we'd seen a hero.
Some of the comments on the clip are curious. Dan Gurney was a man of great character, to whom few could compare within or without the sport, but he was not the only notable American gentleman. His good friend Phil Hill was one and so were Masten Gregory and Mark Donohue. On the other hand, Harry Schell and Carroll Shelby were clownish and thought to have been secretly Canadian. 
Doug Nye's comment that Indianapolis Eagles were never "hit by the pretty stick" was remarkably clueless. Some were and some were not.
The 1966 Indy Eagle was by design almost identical to the Grand Prix car 
Later Eagles gradually added girth but retained the essential design, like older actresses past their prime. Dan Gurney won the USAC Rex Mays 300 at Riverside in 1967 and 1968 with 255 and 318 cubic inch Gurney-Weslake stock-block engines fueled by methanol and ultimately rated at 560 bhp @ 7500 rpm in 1968 and about 600 in 1969.
The 1968 Riverside winning Eagle with the 1966 car in the distance: 
The early to mid 1970s design by Roman Slobodynskij was purposeful, handsome and extremely successful. Along with the McLaren M16, it redefined the look of race cars at Indianapolis.
Cheers, Carl
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Post by charleselan on Apr 5, 2020 18:03:26 GMT
Excellent review, thanks Chris. It appears to be a good copy and more in keeping with MS of old from what you describe. Interesting to hear that Oxley has written about Scott's beginnings, obviously I have some knowledge myself about such things as i enlightened you some time back. The boy has done well considering many things and we must also give credit to his father Adrian and uncle Daryl who have done a lot for him respectively. Personally I can see that Scott has become much more rounded these past two years, and I have read the other day that Ducati are very pleased to have him back in the fold, and are full of praise for him. It would be brilliant if he did win the WSBK title when it starts up again which would look impressive on his resumé following on from the BSB title. Going back to MotoGP would have to be right, but the nagging issue I have is the fact that he is just too big a guy for that series the way it is currently, he would be at a disadvantage from the beginning because of that. Moving on I browsed the automobilsport-magazine site last evening to see what was in their latest issue. They have a big thing on the 1970 season as a main feature plus an interview with Emerson Fittipaldi focusing on his time at Team Lotus. He talks about how helpful Jochen Rindt was to him in 1970, and the fact that he went from Formula Ford to F1 all in one season (impressive) and the Lotus 72. Just as an aside I saw a good little clip on YouTube last night featuring JYS demonstrating Dan Gurney's Eagle Weslake at Goodwood. He spoke beautifully about Dan and what a great and universally loved guy he was. Not surprisingly JYS was lost in the cockpit of the car designed to fit the 6 foot plus Mr Gurney. The car incidentally looked more glorious than ever, and praise be had its original sized roll over bar. John Charles, I will read Mat Oxley post haste. Your relative has become more than relatively famous. It's a shame that his size presents the same disadvantage faced by Dan Gurney.
This is the clip you mentioned and it's excellent, the Spa winner needing only a bit more throttle from a triple world champion who surely hasn't forgotten how to go fast!
I spoke briefly with Dan Gurney at Long Beach following the 1980 Grand Prix. He was normally there as one of the founders of the Long Beach Grand Prix. My friend and I had earlier witnessed a terrifying accident when Clay Regazzoni's brake pedal snapped as he approached the second hairpin at 190 mph. We also saw the immediate response by Gurney as he jumped over the inside barrier and ran across a wide expanse of track to the escape road where Regazzoni was trapped in his Ensign.
Sensing our concern was genuine after the race when we bumped into him and asked about Regazzoni, Dan told us Clay was badly injured but alive and could talk. I remember being in awe as we talked. When we had seen him earlier act boldly and without hesitation to assist a badly injured driver, we'd seen a hero.
Some of the comments on the clip are curious. Dan Gurney was a man of great character, to whom few could compare within or without the sport, but he was not the only notable American gentleman. His good friend Phil Hill was one and so were Masten Gregory and Mark Donohue. On the other hand, Harry Schell and Carroll Shelby were clownish and thought to have been secretly Canadian.
Clearly incorrect is Doug Nye's comment that Indianapolis Eagles were never "hit by the pretty stick". Some were and some were not.
The 1966 Indy Eagle was by design almost identical to the Grand Prix car
Later Eagles gradually added girth but retained the essential design, like older actresses past their prime. Dan Gurney won the USAC Rex Mays 300 at Riverside in 1967 and 1968 with 255 and 318 cubic inch Gurney-Weslake stock-block engines fueled by methanol and ultimately rated at 560 bhp @ 7500 rpm in 1968 and about 600 in 1969.
The 1968 Riverside winning Eagle with the 1966 car in the distance:
The early to mid 1970s design by Roman Slobodynskij was purposeful, handsome and extremely successful. Along with the McLaren M16, it redefined the look of race cars at Indianapolis.
Cheers, Carl
Carl, I too noted that rather strange remark from Doug Nye in the film, unusual for him to make such a stupid comment like that. The first Indycar Eagles were very much similar to the Grand prix versions and all designed by Len Terry following the same design principles he used on the fabulous Indy Lotus 38, he also continued the ideas with the 1968 BRM P128 & 133 cars. All great looking racing cars in my opinion. As you correctly mention the Eagle styling changed a bit over the following years becoming a bit flatter in profile and slightly more wide in cross section, they still looked good to my way of thinking especially those that Dan drove so exceptionally well at Riverside in '67/'68. I had an exchange on here with an ex member about the Slobodynskij designed cars of the early 1970's after I had made the assertion they had influenced Mauro Forgieri in his 312B3 & T cars. I know for a fact that they did as there was a magazine article of that period which stated as much, but unfortunately the ex-member would not accept that premise, but nothing new there. Of course other American racers were gentlemen especially Phil Hill. Not sure why you think Harry Schell was a bit of clown, always liked him myself but I was only a little lad at the time so...... Anyway Harry was Franco/American so you have a get out there . Masten Gregory was a good guy too as you say, quite cosmopolitan if memory serves me correctly, and on his day a fine racing driver. I believe he was a bit of a hero to none other than Jim Clark when he was a young driver. A shame that most people these days only remember Masten for jumping out of cars as they were in the process of crashing, as he was much more than that. John Charles |
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Post by Carl on Apr 6, 2020 4:12:27 GMT
John Charles, I will read Mat Oxley post haste. Your relative has become more than relatively famous. It's a shame that his size presents the same disadvantage faced by Dan Gurney.
This is the clip you mentioned and it's excellent, the Spa winner needing only a bit more throttle from a triple world champion who surely hasn't forgotten how to go fast!
I spoke briefly with Dan Gurney at Long Beach following the 1980 Grand Prix. He was normally there as one of the founders of the Long Beach Grand Prix. My friend and I had earlier witnessed a terrifying accident when Clay Regazzoni's brake pedal snapped as he approached the second hairpin at 190 mph. We also saw the immediate response by Gurney as he jumped over the inside barrier and ran across a wide expanse of track to the escape road where Regazzoni was trapped in his Ensign.
Sensing our concern was genuine after the race when we bumped into him and asked about Regazzoni, Dan told us Clay was badly injured but alive and could talk. I remember being in awe as we talked. When we had seen him earlier act boldly and without hesitation to assist a badly injured driver, we'd seen a hero.
Some of the comments on the clip are curious. Dan Gurney was a man of great character, to whom few could compare within or without the sport, but he was not the only notable American gentleman. His good friend Phil Hill was one and so were Masten Gregory and Mark Donohue. On the other hand, Harry Schell and Carroll Shelby were clownish and thought to have been secretly Canadian.
Clearly incorrect is Doug Nye's comment that Indianapolis Eagles were never "hit by the pretty stick". Some were and some were not.
The 1966 Indy Eagle was by design almost identical to the Grand Prix car
Later Eagles gradually added girth but retained the essential design, like older actresses past their prime. Dan Gurney won the USAC Rex Mays 300 at Riverside in 1967 and 1968 with 255 and 318 cubic inch Gurney-Weslake stock-block engines fueled by methanol and ultimately rated at 560 bhp @ 7500 rpm in 1968 and about 600 in 1969.
The 1968 Riverside winning Eagle with the 1966 car in the distance:
The early to mid 1970s design by Roman Slobodynskij was purposeful, handsome and extremely successful. Along with the McLaren M16, it redefined the look of race cars at Indianapolis.
Cheers, Carl
Carl, I too noted that rather strange remark from Doug Nye in the film, unusual for him to make such a stupid comment like that. The first Indycar Eagles were very much similar to the Grand prix versions and all designed by Len Terry following the same design principles he used on the fabulous Indy Lotus 38, he also continued the ideas with the 1968 BRM P128 & 133 cars. All great looking racing cars in my opinion. As you correctly mention the Eagle styling changed a bit over the following years becoming a bit flatter in profile and slightly more wide in cross section, they still looked good to my way of thinking especially those that Dan drove so exceptionally well at Riverside in '67/'68. I had an exchange on here with an ex member about the Slobodynskij designed cars of the early 1970's after I had made the assertion they had influenced Mauro Forgieri in his 312B3 & T cars. I know for a fact that they did as there was a magazine article of that period which stated as much, but unfortunately the ex-member would not accept that premise, but nothing new there. Of course other American racers were gentlemen especially Phil Hill. Not sure why you think Harry Schell was a bit of clown, always liked him myself but I was only a little lad at the time so...... Anyway Harry was Franco/American so you have a get out there . Masten Gregory was a good guy too as you say, quite cosmopolitan if memory serves me correctly, and on his day a fine racing driver. I believe he was a bit of a hero to none other than Jim Clark when he was a young driver. A shame that most people these days only remember Masten for jumping out of cars as they were in the process of crashing, as he was much more than that. John Charles John Charles, Recently, I've been wondering if Doug Nye has become senile (a nicer word than demented) as he also supported Great Britain's departure from the European Union. A pattern of baseless opinion may have started for him as well as for the previous member who lost perspective and became irrational and defensive. We failed to remember that all roads lead to Rome...or once did. I knew when I made it that my assessment of Harry Schell was hasty, and maybe unfairly biased. Money can do great things and many times inherited wealth does just that, but often it weakens the recipient and has ripple effects through society, for which royalty is a good example. His military service prior to and during World War II was admirable even if inspired by a reckless sense of adventure (same bias again). Because he raced almost exclusively in Europe, it was years later that I learned about this talented driver and real character, but even if all he accomplished was to inspire your great enthusiasm and store of motorsport knowledge, then he succeeded admirably. Three of my favorite American drivers were born into wealth. Masten Gregory and Phil Hill relied on it to get started but soon earned their way with talent and results. Because he was denied access to his inheritance by his disapproving father, Peter Revon's success was hard-earned all the way, but he never could rid himself of the sense of superiority he'd acquired in childhood. 
-Carl "A working class hero is something to be" - John Lennon |
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Post by robmarsh on Apr 6, 2020 8:59:50 GMT
There is so much more to following motorsport than the "Hamilton is the best or Vettel should get fired and if you don't agree with me I will punch you" comments that are so tedious on other forums. The comments on this thread alone prove that.
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Post by charleselan on Apr 6, 2020 10:34:47 GMT
Carl, Do you know I was unaware that Doug Nye was a Brexiteer, well thats him finished for me now . Such a shame that quite a few people that were high up in my esteem like McCartney and Ringo Star have fallen from grace because of their rank stupidity regarding the "B" word. I always rated Doug Nye as a writer and motor sport historian but that comment about the Indy Eagles was crass, maybe you are correct that he is suffering from senility or could it be the boating accident he suffered some years ago has caught up with him. Harry Schell was just one of those motor racing figures that made an impression on a young lad in the later part of the 1950's. As I have mentioned many times before there wasn't a lot of material about in those days, but the memories of the radio live race transmissions and the odd photo in magazines or books were enough. Pete Revson, a really very good race driver, he and Denny Hulme were a great pairing at McLaren. The other week a watched the film about the making of the movie "Le Mans" which obviously centred around McQueen, but there was a excellent bit on the 1970 Sebring 12 Hour race where McQueen finished second in an old Porsche 908 paired with Peter Revson. Of course contrary to what the populists wish to believe it was Revvie that really did the fast work, as i believe Mario Andretti is keen to assert. JC |
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Post by chrisb on Apr 7, 2020 6:42:59 GMT
Doug? really, humph, man has no sense,
one of Harry's finest races was at Rheims, 56/57 and he took it to the Ferrari's - in the Vanwall - if memory serves he took over Mike's car so it must have been 56, there is a fabulous clip on utub and they look quick,
I always thought highly of Peter, another underrated driver i always felt, another biography that has gone walkies, i'd probably be worth a lot more money but for my giving away or misplacing books kits etc, there is a poignant moment when Peter was killed he'd been playing tennis beforehand and his sports clothes were still wet with his perspiration, can't remember who wrote that but it just struck me
as did today's sad anniversary, poignant pictures of Jimmy the night before and at the start of that fateful race abound - rest in peace
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Post by robmarsh on Apr 7, 2020 8:13:13 GMT
Chris, Peter Revson had probably been playing tennis at the Kyalami Ranch Motel which was a few hundred metres from the track and where he was killed. In fact they probably could have seen the accident from the swimming pool at the Motel. I visited the motel in the late eighties and it was a very plain unpretentious place in keeping with the times. Not at all like the hotels the drivers stay in now. In fact I am not sure whether it still exists.
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Post by charleselan on Apr 7, 2020 9:15:23 GMT
Today April 7th commemorates one of the blackest days in history for any true motor sport fan, let alone those of us who idolised Jim Clark. Talk of the "Kennedy Moment", well mine is the "Clark Moment" which will stay with me until the day I die. As Dan Gurney put it with a tear in his eye all those years later, "the world would never be the same again".  Jim on the way to his first Grand Prix win at Spa in 1962.  In the Team Lotus 48 Formula Two car at Zolder in 1967.  Another Formula Two photo, this time in the Ron Harris Team Lotus 32 Cosworth SCA.  Finally the championship winning year of 1965 and the Lotus 33 fitted with the 16 valve flat plain crank engine on this occasion. In the background the BRM's of Graham Hill and JYS. |
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Post by Carl on Apr 7, 2020 15:47:01 GMT
Doug? really, humph, man has no sense, one of Harry's finest races was at Rheims, 56/57 and he took it to the Ferrari's - in the Vanwall - if memory serves he took over Mike's car so it must have been 56, there is a fabulous clip on utub and they look quick, I always thought highly of Peter, another underrated driver i always felt, another biography that has gone walkies, i'd probably be worth a lot more money but for my giving away or misplacing books kits etc, there is a poignant moment when Peter was killed he'd been playing tennis beforehand and his sports clothes were still wet with his perspiration, can't remember who wrote that but it just struck me as did today's sad anniversary, poignant pictures of Jimmy the night before and at the start of that fateful race abound - rest in peace Dan Gurney once said he'd sometimes look for several moments at his hotel room as he was about to leave on race morning, wondering who would be next to enter. I suppose some drivers could entertain such thoughts now and then, and go out and win the race, while others could not.
At the 1956 French Grand Prix at Rheims, Ferrari qualified 1,2 and 3 with Harry Schell 4th in the Vanwall and faster than his teammates.
I agree that Revson was better than he is rated, with a great car and good luck a potential world champion. Like every driver at the time, he must have dreamed of approaching the greatness of Jim Clark.
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Post by Carl on Apr 7, 2020 17:26:48 GMT
John Charles,
Your wonderful photographs are a great tribute to the driver who'd stand on the top step of an all-time podium. Well done.
-Carl
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Post by charleselan on Apr 7, 2020 18:05:23 GMT
John Charles, Your wonderful photographs are a great tribute to the driver who'd stand on the top step of an all-time podium. Well done. -Carl Sadly Carl not my own photographic work, a bit before my time in that respect although I was just starting out taking photos at motocross meetings. I sometimes think that B&W pictures are more fitting for that era, just lovely work. Also probably my favourite era, those little 1.5 litre F1 cars were so exquisite, as were the 1.0 litre F2 cars, although i did prefer the 1.6 litre F2 period as that as a classic time in Formula Two. |
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Post by Carl on Apr 7, 2020 20:22:41 GMT
John Charles, Your wonderful photographs are a great tribute to the driver who'd stand on the top step of an all-time podium. Well done. -Carl Sadly Carl not my own photographic work, a bit before my time in that respect although I was just starting out taking photos at motocross meetings. I sometimes think that B&W pictures are more fitting for that era, just lovely work. Also probably my favourite era, those little 1.5 litre F1 cars were so exquisite, as were the 1.0 litre F2 cars, although i did prefer the 1.6 litre F2 period as that as a classic time in Formula Two. Yes, but they are the ones you chose to post with a curator's eye, and in that sense they are yours. Whenever I think of the 1.5 litre cars, I imagine the great cinematic poetry of John Frankenheimer's "Grand Prix". As you say, they were exquisite. |
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Post by chrisb on Apr 8, 2020 6:10:44 GMT
wonderful photos, a fitting tribute to the best of the best
i loved the Lotus 33 and BRM's, Brabhams etc of 1965 and think how far they had come since 1961 where they looked all square and awkward, their sleekness and beauty was always a joy,
didn't know that of Dan, but it is something I can resonate with as every time i go out on the bike I have a brief fleeting moment wondering if that car driver has seen me or not
ah it was 56, thought Harry magnificent that day and another needless bloody tragedy that followed some years later at Silverstone - gosh that so annoys me, as does Peter's tragic demise,
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It's a shame that his size presents the same disadvantage faced by Dan Gurney.
