Carroll Shelby had two great ideas

[Carl]

Well done John Charles and Chris! I'm always impressed by the knowledge elsewhere of American television, on which James Drury, like many good young actors hopeful for stardom, was all over, especially in westerns.

A quick look at imdb.com reminded me that he was an astronaut in the science-fiction classic "Forbidden Planet" and a villain in the great Sam Peckinpah western, "Ride the High Country".

                                                                     

[mikael]

A contemporary Ford advertisement featuring Ken Miles (it seems).



And a charming ad for the Mk III road car.

"Would you let your daughter marry a Ford owner?"   

[chrisb]

that is a beautiful car, I seem to remember one Grand Prix at Brands when they got a number of GT40's together only for a clash at the beginning of Paddock Hill, the amount of money that would have cost would surely have made one cry

[charleselan]

Over the past few evenings I have seen more YouTube films regarding the movie "Ford v's Ferrari" and related items.

Firstly there is an excellent and accurate film/review that concentrates on ten facts that were real events and those that were artistic licence, it makes good viewing. In this short film it also shows some extracts from the film which gave me a clear indication of the accent used by Christian Bale whilst portraying Ken Miles. He definitely has a distinct "Midlands" sound to his voice, but not strongly emphasised as "Brummy". We do know of course that in the film posted by Carl above a rare spoken glimpse of Ken Miles shows that he had quite a "well spoken" accent, but maybe that was done for the film to show him as "typically English".

However that being said one would have to say that Christian Bale has done a really excellent job of portraying the man, with superb mannerisms and how Ken dressed as well as doing the best he could regarding his voice knowing that there is very little available of Mr Miles actually speaking at length on film.

Another film that I have seen (last evening) was a brilliant period piece of the 1963 Road America 500 (apologies if you have posted this before Carl). As we all know the circuit is just wonderful, an absolute classic in fact. In this race it is mainly for GT cars but the field is filled out with under 2 litre sports racers and a variety of older mid/late fifties front engined sports race cars like Scarab's and Mk1 Chaparral's etc.

In the main GT class there are three factory AC Cobra's, two of which appear in the accepted factory metallic dark blue with twin wide white central stripes and one in plain red. The red car has been pictured/filmed many times from that period and as on this occasion piloted by Ken Miles, I just wonder why this car always ran in this colour as opposed to the traditional Cobra colours. During this race Miles was paired with Bob Holbert who actually won that years drivers title for this series, both drivers were very quick, Ken Miles especially so and highly impressive.

[charleselan]

To add with my comment above I have found this interesting little biopic of Ken Miles on YouTube, unfortunately in Spanish but with English subtitles and some good film clips. It adds a lot to our story and gives some interesting facts about Ken and his life, apparently he wasn't a tank commander but a mechanic as that as his trade as he did his apprenticeship at the car maker Wolsley. He was from an industrialised part of Birmingham so most definitely not from anything remotely "posh".





Further to this I have also attached below the excellent film of the Road America 500 described above. Having looked at a few more films of that period it would appear that the metallic blue and white Shelby run Cobra's were entered in the Grand touring class whereas the red version was entered in the Open Sports Car class, probably running with prototype parts etc.

[Carl]

John Charles,
                     You've provided both excellent analysis and films. The fact v fiction in Ford v Ferrari made clear several things and confirmed several others while the overview of Ken Miles' career had an English translation that was easy to read while the attractive Raquel de la Morena narrated. What had been posted before was the 1964 Road America 500, also a wonderful film. But even if it had been the same, excellence deserves to be repeated.

                     The only reason that occurs to me for the #98 Cobra to have been painted red may be, as the only Cobra in the Open Sports category, the team may have wanted easy recognition at a distance.

Cheers, Carl

[charleselan]

Nov 28, 2019 0:23:39 GMT Carl said:

John Charles,
                     You've provided both excellent analysis and films. The fact v fiction in Ford v Ferrari made clear several things and confirmed several others while the overview of Ken Miles' career had an English translation that was easy to read while the attractive Raquel de la Morena narrated. What had been posted before was the 1964 Road America 500, also a wonderful film. But even if it had been the same, excellence deserves to be repeated.

                     The only reason that occurs to me for the #98 Cobra to have been painted red may be, as the only Cobra in the Open Sports category, the team may have wanted easy recognition at a distance.

Cheers, Carl

Carl,

That is a great thought about the colour of the Cobras and would make a great deal of sense.

I have for many years been an admirer of Ken Miles and this new film which has brought his name to the fore has increased my interest in the man. Back in the 1960's many of the drivers who were stars in the American race scene were not really talked about in the Uk media, or come to that European also. Guys like Ken Miles and Jerry Titus got little mention in magazines so we knew very little about them, it actually took me quite q while to realise that Ken was actually British.

Sometimes it was like in the "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" film when Redford exclaimed "who are those guys".

On another theme if one looks at that excellent two page magazine advert that Mikael has posted above we see the beautiful Ford GT40 finished in the well known Shelby metallic blue which in fact was quite rare. I believe this to be the 1965 car that ran at Daytona and Sebring as the GT40's raced in those colours at those two races. Ken Miles actually won the 24 hours of Daytona along with his oft partner Lloyd Ruby that year in one of those cars that I think were fitted with the 289cu in Cobra motors.

They were not so successful at Sebring where the Chaparral 2C of Jim Hall won, a race noted for the torrential tropical storm that would have stopped the race today.

Interestingly both of these endurance races were not subjected to the FIA rules regarding prototypes and cars that could have raced in Can Am (like the Chaparral) were allowed. Most of the European prototypes like the Ferrari 275/330P variations ran with cut down windscreens and tubular roll over bars. As a result of these regulations Dan Gurney raced his Pacesetter Homes Lotus 19 Ford V8 in both the 1965 events, dominating the Daytona 24 Hours with Jerry Grant, only to be robbed of victory in the closing hours, typically Dan's bad luck.

As a result of the car performance at this race I believe it was taken under the wing of Shelby and Ford and at Sebring ran in the glorious metallic blue and white colour scheme of the Cobra's and GT40's.

Ken Miles and Lloyd Ruby's great partnership continued into 1966 where they won both the Daytona 24 Hours and the Sebring 12 hours, the latter in the very rare open top dark red Ford Mk2 7 litre. It was planned that they would be teamed together again at Le Mans but Lloyd Ruby was out of action with a badly broken leg so they seconded Denny Hulme. The partnership of Ken and Denny was one that allowed them to dominate the race only for their efforts to be sabotaged by Ford top brass i their insane attempt to stage a tied finish, a ploy that cost them the victory on a technicality and Ken Miles the triple crown of all three endurance races in one season.

As an aside back in the 1960's the one slot car model I wanted but never owned, money was tight, was a beautiful 1/32nd scale version of the 1965 Daytona Ford GT40 modelled by a company called Cox, it was beautiful and very advanced for the time. These models now fetch amazing money as collectors items.

[chrisb]

I see that next year's Race Retro is featuring a Cobra as its first attraction,

I knew of Ken Miles, he was mentioned in MotorSport in the 60's but not quite in the same way of other sports car racers like Olivier Gendebien or Brian Redman, nor was he seemed to be regarded as quick as others racers, although another great driver whose versatility I feel is terribly overlooked is Graham, whose tragic accident occurred this day 44 years ago, what a dreadful time that was, and one of my dreams was to see Graham and Jimmy share a GT40 at Le Mans, now that would have been something

Dan is one of my all-time favourite people and racers, and capapble of nursing a sick car as was Stirling, but was it always bad luck that caused so many retirements for both these drivers?

[mikael]

I understand that I am moving quite a bit away from the "Ford vs Ferrari" / "Le Mans '66" film; however, the (talk about the) film has renewed my interest in the Ford GT40. In this way, I came across a quite new video in the "Jay Leno's Garage" series, from May this year, on the 2005 Ford GT. Had it been any other "super car" I would have had zero interest in it, but this was really a re-make of the GT40, and (as mentioned also in earlier threads) I was very fascinated by the project - and by the final car - at the time, now 15 years ago.

The video shows a matter-of-fact type of conversation between Jay Leno and the Ford GT designer, Camilo Pardo. It's packet with interesting information and a real pleasure to watch. Among other things, they comment on the role of Carroll Shelby in the project, and on feedback in the design process from Niki Lauda.

Dicect YouTube link:

[charleselan]

After speaking about this earlier I decided to look at the two YT films of the 1965 Daytona 24 Hours and the Sebring 12 Hours, both films were produced for Goodyear & Ford and show some great footage as well as the usual 1960's cinematography that would be less acceptable in todays PC world. Apparently we are not allowed to admire the female form and any charming derrière that may be on display these days .

The films do have a colour cast at times that shows the age of the archive they were taken from but great films none the less with some brilliant cars and drivers on display. Just watch the clip of Pedro Rodriguez trudging half of one mile carrying a heavy lead acid battery in an attempt to get his stricken works Ferrari going, along with a huge entourage.

Also the monsoon like downpour that was of biblical proportions that hit the Sebring event which is like nothing I have ever seen at a race meeting. The fact that they kept racing is truly amazing especially when the cars are part submerged at times, and in the dark towards the end is mind blowing, those guys were truly heroes.

Great films.

[charleselan]

Adding to the two films above that I posted earlier I have found a similar but even better film of the 1966 Sebring 12 Hours, this also appears to have been produced for Ford & Goodyear. A very strong entry especially by Ford and Shelby; Ferrari not so with just one up to date 330P3 for Mike Parkes and Bob Bondurant and an older P2 for Pedro and Mario Andretti this still featuring the "Open Class" cut down screen and roll over bar. There were also two of the then new Sports prototype Chaparral 2D's which were having numerous issues at that time; Hap Sharp suggesting that the extra weight imposed on this class by the FIA rules were creating problems for them.

Some great short interviews with so many iconic drivers before the race but none so heart wrenching than the one with Big Dan after the race where he lead until the very last lap of the 12 Hours only for the Ford Mk11 to break down half a mile from the finish. The big man then proceeded to push the beast across the line only to be disqualified for doing so.

Ken Miles & Lloyd Ruby were the winners in the rare open top Ford Mk11 often referred to as the X1 which I will still call an open top Mk11. Both are very sporting after the race regarding Dan & Jerry Grant's ill luck.

From the post race interview with Ken Miles we can finally put to rest his English accent, it was "well spoken English" and not distinctly Midlands or "posh" as with Michael Parkes who very obviously was privately school educated. Probably the reason why he and Big John Surtees did not get along too well .

[Carl]

Nov 30, 2019 12:22:09 GMT charleselan said:

After speaking about this earlier I decided to look at the two YT films of the 1965 Daytona 24 Hours and the Sebring 12 Hours, both films were produced for Goodyear & Ford and show some great footage as well as the usual 1960's cinematography that would be less acceptable in todays PC world. Apparently we are not allowed to admire the female form and any charming derrière that may be on display these days .

The films do have a colour cast at times that shows the age of the archive they were taken from but great films none the less with some brilliant cars and drivers on display. Just watch the clip of Pedro Rodriguez trudging half of one mile carrying a heavy lead acid battery in an attempt to get his stricken works Ferrari going, along with a huge entourage.

Also the monsoon like downpour that was of biblical proportions that hit the Sebring event which is like nothing I have ever seen at a race meeting. The fact that they kept racing is truly amazing especially when the cars are part submerged at times, and in the dark towards the end is mind blowing, those guys were truly heroes.

Great films.

Great films!

                     The same Rubenesque beauty seen enjoying the attention at the track and on Daytona Beach was either being stalked by the Goodyear film crew or ogled by arrangement.   My only objection today is when a woman barely dresses for all to see but wants only a small audience. 

                     I liked how the announcer passive-aggressively points out "European" tyre failures without being more specific.  Goodyear was in fierce competition with Firestone and both may have been better prepared for the stresses of Daytona's high banks.  Lloyd Ruby, whose bad luck at Indianapolis rivaled Mario Andretti's, was one of the few Indianapolis specialists equally fast on a road course.  Ruby, A.J. Foyt and Johnnie Rutherford were the great Texas drivers over two decades at Indy, a tradition upheld today by Ryan Hunter-Reay.

                    Sebring '66 was amazing, great competition.  Although the Chaparral 2Ds were more beautiful, I was eager to trade my MkIII for an aerodynamic Sprite, to no avail.  The great George Follmer and the star-crossed Peter Gregg won the GTS class, their Porsche 904 as fast as the factory 906s.  Dan Gurney's luck was seldom good, a damn shame, but that he was one of the greats who died peacefully in bed meant better fortune in life.

Cheers, Carl

 

                    

[chrisb]

Yes I have also seen this JC and Ken's accent is most decidedly not a London accent, but as you describe. I still think there is another interview around that he speaks a bit more in

totally Carl, the 66 and 67 Sebring races were full of noise and colour and Lloyd Ruby was another driver I was aware of and vaguely recollect a piece on him remarking how unfortunate he had been, but yet another great versatile driver who really did turn his hand to anything.

[mikael]

Nov 30, 2019 12:22:09 GMT charleselan said:

Also the monsoon like downpour that was of biblical proportions that hit the Sebring event which is like nothing I have ever seen at a race meeting. The fact that they kept racing is truly amazing especially when the cars are part submerged at times, and in the dark towards the end is mind blowing, those guys were truly heroes.

Yes, really unbelievable conditions. Apparently, such words as "undriveable" were yet to be coined . A real test of manhood. And to think that the prototypes ran without lights - in pitch-dark conditions, on a circuit that was fully under water. "If you don't have lights, you stay with someone who has!", the narrator says. My goodness ...!

[charleselan]

Dec 2, 2019 1:07:06 GMT mikael said:

Nov 30, 2019 12:22:09 GMT charleselan said:

Also the monsoon like downpour that was of biblical proportions that hit the Sebring event which is like nothing I have ever seen at a race meeting. The fact that they kept racing is truly amazing especially when the cars are part submerged at times, and in the dark towards the end is mind blowing, those guys were truly heroes.

Yes, really unbelievable conditions. Apparently, such words as "undriveable" were yet to be coined . A real test of manhood. And to think that the prototypes ran without lights - in pitch-dark conditions, on a circuit that was fully under water. "If you don't have lights, you stay with someone who has!", the narrator says. My goodness ...!

I believe that most race fans today would be able to comprehend racing in the conditions that were seen at Sebring in 1965. When I watched the excellent Kyalami 9 Hours last weekend the closing stages of that featured a heavy downpour and thunderstorm that as quite something, but nothing on the scale of Sebring. The fact that the cars disappeared under the bow wave as they quite literally ploughed through the high volume of water was astonishing, and testimony to the electrics on the cars and other parts that could have failed.

I think that the commentator was referring to cars that had a head light failure Mikael, rather than the sports prototypes not having lights. Even the "Open Class" sports cars like the Chaparral 2C that won the race had quite good headlights, in fact the Chaparral's were quite attractive being placed right in the nose section of the car.

Those guys were absolute heroes driving in those conditions when darkness fell, bad enough in the light but...........