F1 technology - real world applications

[Deleted]

Here you go folks - for all those who reckon that the F1 technology, and particularly the hybrid power units, have no real world application

Infiniti - the luxury performance brand of the Nissian Renault group - have used the F1 power unit componentry in a car, and are considering productionising it.

www.digitaltrends.com/cars/infiniti-project-black-s-prototype-2018-paris-motor-show/

There is a podcast that covers a test and review of it at Magny Cours, check out 'Flat Chat with Codders' (thats Stuart Codling of F1 Racing and Autosport).
Really interesting if you like a bit of techy stuff.

What do the Round Table think of that?
and
What are your favourite technology transfers from motorsports to road vehicles?
  

[chrisb]

Disc brakes is the first thing to come to mind Jim, but then it is rather early, I was a fan of KERS and would have liked to see that used a great deal more, always struck me as a good way to use energy - mm going to have to think about this one methinks

[mikael]

Some very useful technology transfers from motor sports to road vehicles are the electronic ignition system and electronic fuel injection. Then there's the valve train: a double overhead cam system with four valves per cylinder came also directly from the racetracks, as did variable cam timing. 

There's really a lot if you start to think about it. There might be even more in relation to motorcycles.  Bikes with two-stroke engines have become rare, but the development of the exhaust expansion chamber (by Walter Kaaden of MZ's road racing (motorcycle GP) department in the late 50's - early 60's) certainly had a huge impact on the two-stroke engine's popularity in the small-capacity motorcycle market in the 60's and 70's. (It's quite a story, of course, involving undercover sale of stolen intellectual property, treason on several levels, personal tragedy, ...)

[Deleted]

Aug 25, 2019 9:36:25 GMT mikael said:

Some very useful technology transfers from motor sports to road vehicles are the electronic ignition system and electronic fuel injection. Then there's the valve train: a double overhead cam system with four valves per cylinder came also directly from the racetracks, as did variable cam timing. 

There's really a lot if you start to think about it. There might be even more in relation to motorcycles.  Bikes with two-stroke engines have become rare, but the development of the exhaust expansion chamber (by Walter Kaaden of MZ's road racing (motorcycle GP) department in the late 50's - early 60's) certainly had a huge impact on the two-stroke engine's popularity in the small-capacity motorcycle market in the 60's and 70's. (It's quite a story, of course, involving undercover sale of stolen intellectual property, treason on several levels, personal tragedy, ...)

The whole two stroke development through the 70, and into the early 80's was phenominal. 
I went from a GT185 Suzuki, to a YDS250 Yamaha, and finally (nearly fatally) to a LC350 Yamaha - the power and delivery improved so much in just a few short years.
I'd like to know more about the tale of the how the eastern european secrets made their way to Japan - a man called Degner I seem to recall.
Please fill in the details!

[Deleted]

Aug 25, 2019 5:54:28 GMT chrisb said:

Disc brakes is the first thing to come to mind Jim, but then it is rather early, I was a fan of KERS and would have liked to see that used a great deal more, always struck me as a good way to use energy - mm going to have to think about this one methinks

I agree about KERS a fantastic system. It (or something very similar) is becoming common in hybrid cars.
I thought the Williams system that used a flywheel as an energy store, rather than a battery was a brilliant idea.
I think it was picked up by porsche for their early WEC hybrids, and also a form of it has been used in buses.  

I was waiting for F1 to allow energy recovery from the front wheel braking system. That could recover a huge amount of energy, and figuring out how to collect, store and deploy that much energy would be another huge engineering challenge for the F1 engineers.
Probably not going to happen for the foreseeable future (well my foreseeable future at least), but maybe it will be a thing in Formula E.

[Carl]

This is a wonderful new thread, Jim!

Some highly advanced technology is filtered down from aerospace, then to aviation in general, then motor racing and aftermarket performance parts before finding its way into ordinary passenger cars.

Motor racing innovations certainly are the main source of advancements in technology specific to cars. It would be difficult to name an important component part or mechanical system that wasn't first thought of by a racing engineer.

[chrisb]

although a bit of a word, aerodynamics really did move forward [no pun intended] the whole design efficiency for road cars

[Deleted]

Aug 26, 2019 7:03:21 GMT chrisb said:

although a bit of a word, aerodynamics really did move forward [no pun intended] the whole design efficiency for road cars

The ability to model fluids (like air and water) has moved forward at an impressive rate in the past 20 years. 
I don't know how much of that is due to F1, but some of those guys can really make air dance to their will.
Even if many fans don't like the evident fact that air needs a lot of little nudges to do what they want rather than big single pushes
The Coefficent of drag figures I've seen for current road vehicles, even SUV's and MPV's, are better than I used to rave about for the Citroen GS, and CX.
So manufacturers have certainly improved that aspect of aero efficency, even if they have forgotten that the total drag is the drag coefficent multiplied by the cross-sectional area - cars, suv's, mpv's and ute's are so big these days. 
 

[Deleted]

Aug 25, 2019 22:53:33 GMT Carl said:

This is a wonderful new thread, Jim!

Some highly advanced technology is filtered down from aerospace, then to aviation in general, then motor racing and aftermarket performance parts before finding its way into ordinary passenger cars.

Motor racing innovations certainly are the main source of advancements in technology specific to cars. It would be difficult to name an important component part or mechanical system that wasn't first thought of by a racing engineer.

I'm really pleased that you, and others, are as enthused by the topic as I am.
I've always been fascinated by technology and innovation, and it used to be so evident in F1.
Now it seems that we have to dig a bit deeper.

One counter example that I was reminded of recently was that until the 2014 hybrid p.u's F1 only allowed a single fuel injector into the inlet tract.
Only with the 2014 regulations could high pressure systems injecting into the combustion chambers be used.
So they were lagging road cars until then.

[René]

What about safety? Have crash technologies and structures trickled down from racing to road cars or the other way around?

I was involved in quite a hefty car crash this weekend (luckely no injuries) and my 5 year old Lexus looked a lot better after the crash then the 25 year old Daimler I hit! Ok, I hit the Daimler in the side but still, the difference was huge and I was glad and lucky to sit in such a safe car!

Safety has come a long way and there must be knowledge and technology from racing that has ended up in our road cars I guess.

[Deleted]

Aug 27, 2019 7:38:13 GMT René said:

What about safety? Have crash technologies and structures trickled down from racing to road cars or the other way around?

I was involved in quite a hefty car crash this weekend (luckely no injuries) and my 5 year old Lexus looked a lot better after the crash then the 25 year old Daimler I hit! Ok, I hit the Daimler in the side but still, the difference was huge and I was glad and lucky to sit in such a safe car!

Safety has come a long way and there must be knowledge and technology from racing that has ended up in our road cars I guess.

Woah there Rene! Thats a big piece of news. I'm sorry to read that you were involved in a crash, but glad that there were no injuries.
I hope that you, and anyone else in the vehicles have no adverse side effects.

I don't know if any of the advances in road car safety performance are related to developments from racing, but there is no doubt that the safety  engineering of both road and race cars has come on in leaps and bounds in the last 40 years (maybe longer).
With F1, the introduction of the carbon fibre monocoque in 1981 (I think?) was a major milestone, as the allows for a more rigid chassis (so they can be lighter and handle better) and greater safety as the material is more resiliant to impact loads.
With road cars, the crash testing regimes that came about from the 60's, allied to the rapid development of finite element analysis techniques, has lead to cars that are massively more rigid (so they handle better), but which are also much safer because they can absorb impacts by deforming in a more predictable way.

[robmarsh]

René, Jim, after Senna's death in 1994, Max Mosely looked to the car manufacturers to see what they had done in terms of side impact safety which he could apply to F1. He was very surprised to find that the answer was nothing and that led to cooperation between the FIA and the car manufacturers. One of the outcomes was the two metal bars that are now found in the doors of modern saloons. I read an article some ten years ago that the side impact initiatives that resulted from this cooperation had saved an estimated 20 000 lives by then.

[charleselan]

Aug 27, 2019 7:38:13 GMT René said:

What about safety? Have crash technologies and structures trickled down from racing to road cars or the other way around?

I was involved in quite a hefty car crash this weekend (luckely no injuries) and my 5 year old Lexus looked a lot better after the crash then the 25 year old Daimler I hit! Ok, I hit the Daimler in the side but still, the difference was huge and I was glad and lucky to sit in such a safe car!

Safety has come a long way and there must be knowledge and technology from racing that has ended up in our road cars I guess.

The main thing is that you and your passengers are OK. Never good to be involved in an RTA, thankfully you were in a quality vehicle which clearly illustrated the advances in automotive construction over the past two decades.

Sometimes it makes one shudder to think what we used to drive around in back in the 1960's/70's and 80's.

[René]

Thanks guys.

Maybe a bit silly to share this here but I have to admit the events made a bigger impact on me than I initially thought. It wasn't my fault, the other driver didn't give me priority. I had the right way. He just crossed the road and he came from behind a corn field so it was difficult for him to see but he really should have stopped completely which he didn't. I only saw him in the last second, hit the brakes and then BAM! Never had a crash like that and it's really scary I can tell you. Nothing you can do. I was alone in the car but they were two elderly couples who were touring in their classic Daimler. Very nice people and completely shocked of course. One lady was unconcious for a brief moment which was very scary but after a thorough check up she was ok. I am still sore in my neck and shoulders but should be ok. The Daimler is completely wasted but I just got news from the garage the Lexus is still repairable which is good news. A new experience...

[Carl]

Aug 27, 2019 15:11:22 GMT René said:

Thanks guys.

Maybe a bit silly to share this here but I have to admit the events made a bigger impact on me than I initially thought. It wasn't my fault, the other driver didn't give me priority. I had the right way. He just crossed the road and he came from behind a corn field so it was difficult for him to see but he really should have stopped completely which he didn't. I only saw him in the last second, hit the brakes and then BAM! Never had a crash like that and it's really scary I can tell you. Nothing you can do. I was alone in the car but they were two elderly couples who were touring in their classic Daimler. Very nice people and completely shocked of course. One lady was unconcious for a brief moment which was very scary but after a thorough check up she was ok. I am still sore in my neck and shoulders but should be ok. The Daimler is completely wasted but I just got news from the garage the Lexus is still repairable which is good news. A new experience...

Rene,

          It's good to hear that you and those in the Daimler are okay!  That kind of sudden accident (at relatively high speed) is always traumatic and the effects linger for a while.  That was a new and very scary experience and you may be hyper-alert for a while before a sense of safety comes back entirely.  Hard to make sense of such incidents.  You understand how it happened but it still makes no sense!

Best wishes, Carl