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Post by robmarsh on May 29, 2019 7:14:59 GMT
I don't think JPM is going to make a lot of difference to Stroll.
I agree that Michael Andretti was probably better than Mario. I was a big fan of his at the time and definitely thing he was wrongly advised and he certainly picked the wrong year to make his F1 debut.
I don't see why the current F1 drivers spend so much money on decorating their helmets. They should rather spend it on customising the halo. At Monaco all I could see was the bright red halo on the Mercs and couldn't distinguish which driver it was. Maybe the halos should be colour coded for each driver and have a camera in the front as mentioned elsewhere.
There were some fantastic camera angles at Monaco that were very rarely used. This was also apparent in the Netflix series on last year's season. These camera angles alone could make the races appear much more interesting for the viewer. Time to upgrade the TV directors.
One benefit of Lec retiring was that we were at least able to see the rest of the drivers. The director in charge was focussing on him a helluva lot at the beginning.
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Post by mikael on May 29, 2019 8:23:22 GMT
Being back home (until Monday) I had the rare chance of watching the GP on Danish TV3+, where Tom Kristensen is the at-the-track co-commentator - it was very good, a real treat.
Nursing the car home with one or more "dead" tyres is no less admirable than nursing it home with a mechanical failure (like an engine missing a cylinder, etc.) - thus, admirable work by Hamilton.
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Post by mikael on May 29, 2019 8:39:34 GMT
Of more interest how many sons have proved better than their fathers. Nico Rosberg comes closest to my mind. I would be interested in other comparisons and views. - Alberto Ascari might have been better than his father, Grand Prix star Antonio Ascari. - Kevin Magnussen has become an established F1-driver; it didn't work out that well for his father Jan Magnussen. Related to this, there are very many cases the fathers of GP/F1 drivers were very good amateur racers, but not professionals. In all these cases the sons have thus proved to be the better ones. A couple of examples: - John Surtees (his father was a sidecar motorcycle racer) - Jenson Button (his father was a rallycross driver) |
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Post by mikael on May 29, 2019 10:48:45 GMT
here you go, some more information, and some pictures of the Indy Car driver protection screen.  The first aeroscreen design, tested last year, looked really good; but this one ... Seeing photos of it, I came to think about the 1978 Renault Le Mans car. It's (almost) as closed as that one; well-nigh impossible to see how the driver works (except from a few specific angles).    |
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Post by charleselan on May 29, 2019 16:02:03 GMT
An interesting topic of debate, son's of famous fathers in motor sport. There have been many over the years and one could write a book on the subject.
Another one would be siblings who raced, thinking of the Rodriguez; Brambilla; Fittipaldi; Villeneuve; Schumacher; Gene Bros, to name a few.
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Post by charleselan on May 29, 2019 17:44:05 GMT
Sorry chaps I cannot go with Michael Andretti being better than Mario. I really rated and liked Michael but Mario was a bit special in so many different disciplines. Pole in his first ever F1 race at Watkins Glen in 1968 driving the high winged GLTL Lotus 49B, then rocking up in the Ferrari 312B at Kyalami in 1971 and winning.
Working with Colin Chapman to reinvigorate Team Lotus in 1976/7/8; yes Ronnie was quicker in 1978 but Jeez the guy would have been quicker than anyone, so that is no slight on Mario's career. Just think the old boy is still driving the two seater Indycar today in his 80's, and not slowly either by all accounts.
Michael's move to McLaren was ill advised and ill managed; wrong time and not thought through. He had the ability to be very good in F1, but not doing it the way he did and in the team they chose.
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Post by Carl on May 29, 2019 21:11:34 GMT
Sorry chaps I cannot go with Michael Andretti being better than Mario. I really rated and liked Michael but Mario was a bit special in so many different disciplines. Pole in his first ever F1 race at Watkins Glen in 1968 driving the high winged GLTL Lotus 49B, then rocking up in the Ferrari 312B at Kyalami in 1971 and winning. Working with Colin Chapman to reinvigorate Team Lotus in 1976/7/8; yes Ronnie was quicker in 1978 but Jeez the guy would have been quicker than anyone, so that is no slight on Mario's career. Just think the old boy is still driving the two seater Indycar today in his 80's, and not slowly either by all accounts. Michael's move to McLaren was ill advised and ill managed; wrong time and not thought through. He had the ability to be very good in F1, but not doing it the way he did and in the team they chose. All valid points. I remember how impressed I was when Mario qualified on pole in his first Grand Prix, an astounding achievement. During his peak years, Michael was even faster than Mario in Indycars, the one suitable comparison, at Indianapolis itself, where he shared the Andretti curse and has the record for most laps led without a win, and elsewhere with more success. An important nuance is that Michael's peak period was relatively short. His interest waned while Mario's never ended. The crucial difference between père et fil was never speed but motivation. In his mind's eye and understandably, Mario Andretti remains the young boy who, unable to afford entry, would approach the outside fence at Monza close to Curva Grande just to listen as Ascari roared past and eventually discovered he had a great talent that could bring fame and fortune. His whole life has been like a miraculous deliverance. Michael experienced none of that and most likely grew tired of hearing about it. He was just as fast as his father in the one arena they shared, but could never be as motivated as someone who'd experienced what his father had. |
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Post by René on May 30, 2019 9:39:06 GMT
Sorry chaps I cannot go with Michael Andretti being better than Mario. I really rated and liked Michael but Mario was a bit special in so many different disciplines. Pole in his first ever F1 race at Watkins Glen in 1968 driving the high winged GLTL Lotus 49B, then rocking up in the Ferrari 312B at Kyalami in 1971 and winning. Working with Colin Chapman to reinvigorate Team Lotus in 1976/7/8; yes Ronnie was quicker in 1978 but Jeez the guy would have been quicker than anyone, so that is no slight on Mario's career. Just think the old boy is still driving the two seater Indycar today in his 80's, and not slowly either by all accounts. Michael's move to McLaren was ill advised and ill managed; wrong time and not thought through. He had the ability to be very good in F1, but not doing it the way he did and in the team they chose. Yes, I very much agree with you JC. Michael was very good but Mario will (at least for me) always be one of the best all-round racers ever. F1, Indy, sportscars and more, always a front runner. And his love and passion for the sport was always in his eyes, still is. Great driver.    |
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Post by René on May 30, 2019 9:53:34 GMT
Nepotism is rife in the driving circles of motor racing as well. How many sons of former F1 drivers have made it quite far in motor sport due to their fathers connections and not due to an abundance of talent. Of more interest how many sons have proved better than their fathers. Nico Rosberg comes closest to my mind. I would be interested in other comparisons and views. Max Verstappen, son of Jos. Jos was good, certainly in the lower classes he was a sensation. A bit like Jan Magnussen I guess. Very talented and even seen as the next big thing in F1. I still have the Autosport issue somewhere I think with Jos on the cover and something like 'the new F1 star of the future'. But it didn't turn out that way. Jos was a respected driver and he managed to stay in F1 for about ten years and he never had to pay for a seat, he got payed. But Max is on another level. His father's connections were very helpful no doubt but Max's natural talent was obvious from the first time he sat in a kart.  |
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Post by charleselan on May 30, 2019 11:50:56 GMT
Sorry chaps I cannot go with Michael Andretti being better than Mario. I really rated and liked Michael but Mario was a bit special in so many different disciplines. Pole in his first ever F1 race at Watkins Glen in 1968 driving the high winged GLTL Lotus 49B, then rocking up in the Ferrari 312B at Kyalami in 1971 and winning. Working with Colin Chapman to reinvigorate Team Lotus in 1976/7/8; yes Ronnie was quicker in 1978 but Jeez the guy would have been quicker than anyone, so that is no slight on Mario's career. Just think the old boy is still driving the two seater Indycar today in his 80's, and not slowly either by all accounts. Michael's move to McLaren was ill advised and ill managed; wrong time and not thought through. He had the ability to be very good in F1, but not doing it the way he did and in the team they chose. All valid points. I remember how impressed I was when Mario qualified on pole in his first Grand Prix, an astounding achievement. During his peak years, Michael was even faster than Mario in Indycars, the one suitable comparison, at Indianapolis itself, where he shared the Andretti curse and has the record for most laps led without a win, and elsewhere with more success. An important nuance is that Michael's peak period was relatively short. His interest waned while Mario's never ended. The crucial difference between père et fil was never speed but motivation. In his mind's eye and understandably, Mario Andretti remains the young boy who, unable to afford entry, would approach the outside fence at Monza close to Curva Grande just to listen as Ascari roared past and eventually discovered he had a great talent that could bring fame and fortune. His whole life has been like a miraculous deliverance. Michael experienced none of that and most likely grew tired of hearing about it. He was just as fast as his father in the one arena they shared, but could never be as motivated as someone who'd experienced what his father had. A very interesting comment and comparison Carl. Michael was outstanding in CART through the 1990's and I always followed him when the races were transmitted in the UK. I believe he was the first driver to win in that series driving a Reynard for Chip Ganassi, and of course like his father he had great success with the Haas/Newman Team, even using their own chassis which for the life of me I cannot remember the name. Also for me i preferred Michael to Al Unser Jnr who was also a great driver, but now appears to be a troubled man. The comparison on speed between Mario and Michael is difficult as they did not race against one another in their prime; Mario must have been in his late forties early fifties when they competed together and that would not have been a fair comparison, even for someone as good as Mario as age does have its effects. Michael has also turned into a very good business man, post racing career. I also understand that one of the reasons he chose to commute across the Atlantic in that abortive F1 year was due to the pressure from his wife who did not want to move to Europe/UK. That season was doomed from the beginning for him, and for so many reasons. Without all the negatives, and there were many, he would have been a major force in F1 without a shadow of doubt. |
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Post by charleselan on May 30, 2019 11:53:39 GMT
Sorry chaps I cannot go with Michael Andretti being better than Mario. I really rated and liked Michael but Mario was a bit special in so many different disciplines. Pole in his first ever F1 race at Watkins Glen in 1968 driving the high winged GLTL Lotus 49B, then rocking up in the Ferrari 312B at Kyalami in 1971 and winning. Working with Colin Chapman to reinvigorate Team Lotus in 1976/7/8; yes Ronnie was quicker in 1978 but Jeez the guy would have been quicker than anyone, so that is no slight on Mario's career. Just think the old boy is still driving the two seater Indycar today in his 80's, and not slowly either by all accounts. Michael's move to McLaren was ill advised and ill managed; wrong time and not thought through. He had the ability to be very good in F1, but not doing it the way he did and in the team they chose. Yes, I very much agree with you JC. Michael was very good but Mario will (at least for me) always be one of the best all-round racers ever. F1, Indy, sportscars and more, always a front runner. And his love and passion for the sport was always in his eyes, still is. Great driver. Not to forget NASCAR and Sprint cars as well  . |
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Post by Carl on May 30, 2019 17:13:49 GMT
Undoubtedly, Mario Andretti is one of the greatest drivers of all time in many arenas, beginning on dirt tracks and culminating with great international success.
Michael's achievements do not compare except in the one arena where some believe he was more impressive during his prime than his father during his prime.
Whew! I think paying attention to all the contentious worldwide political disarray has made me more contentious. It's a good time to disengage from world events for awhile.
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Post by charleselan on May 30, 2019 17:52:58 GMT
Undoubtedly, Mario Andretti is one of the greatest drivers of all time in many arenas, beginning on dirt tracks and culminating with great international success.
Michael's achievements do not compare except in the one arena where some believe he was more impressive during his prime than his father during his prime.
Whew! I think paying attention to all the contentious worldwide political disarray has made me more contentious. It's a good time to disengage from world events for awhile.
Carl, You are no more contentious than any other, current world affairs, some far away and some closer to home make us all feel a bit "punchy". I would like to classify my own in terms that motorcycle racers currently use when really going for it; I am "biting the screen" right now. We are living in dangerous times and very worrying ones at that. John Charles |
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Post by robmarsh on May 30, 2019 18:00:40 GMT
Sadly Carl and Charles you are both correct. Apart from technology the world has gone backwards. It is indeed a dangerous and worrying place to live.
I do not have much faith in any of the leaders of the major powers to sort it out. They all seem to be sociopaths at least and that orange buffoon in the white house one of the most dangerous, along with Putin and the north korean.
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Post by René on May 30, 2019 19:06:20 GMT
Undoubtedly, Mario Andretti is one of the greatest drivers of all time in many arenas, beginning on dirt tracks and culminating with great international success.
Michael's achievements do not compare except in the one arena where some believe he was more impressive during his prime than his father during his prime. Whew! I think paying attention to all the contentious worldwide political disarray has made me more contentious. It's a good time to disengage from world events for awhile.
Carl, I have seen more of Michael at his prime than I have of Mario. I always thought Michael was fantastic and I was convinced he would be a star in F1. It was not meant to be for reasons already mentioned here but certainly not for a lack of talent. Maybe he was better than his father in Indy, very possible and if he had succeeded in F1 his achievements would have been much more like his dad's. As for the state of world politics, it's concerning to anyone with half a brain. The gulf of intolerance, conservatism and navel gazing we're seeing all over the world right now is a huge concern and sometimes outright depressing. |
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