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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2018 10:13:25 GMT
Ignoring the more painful side of qualifying, that was a great outcome for the two Toro Rosso cars, and their spec three Honda p.u. It was a disrupted qualifying session, but for them to get into Q3, then secure 6th and 7th on the grid (ahead of both Force India's, and a Ferrari!) Is a fantastic result. Fingers crossed they can carry this forward to a strong haul of points in the race, and that Kiwi Brendan Hartley manages to stay ahead of Gasley - Go kiwi!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2018 10:17:45 GMT
Fair point on the blasphemy, I know its a 'sensor'tive point ;-) You're right, "Great Clark" or "Great JYS", is a bit of tautology, and doesn't have the same ring, but try, "JIM CLARK! you couldn't write this stuff....." or, "JYS! you couldn't write this stuff....." I reckon that works :-) Now you may have something with this. A sort of modern Celtic rhyming slang, the equivalent of the Cockney "Gordon Bennett". "Jim Clark"! anything but Mercedes Benz! Ha ha, I think you've got it :-) I used it in anger several times during qualifying "Jim Clark! That was painful! "
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Post by charleselan on Oct 6, 2018 11:11:57 GMT
I have only read about qualifying on the news sites, modern F1 is not compelling enough these days for me to rise early to view, sad but true. Not impressed by this sudden return of dominance by MB, I am almost beginning to wear a "Tin Hat" about the whole affair. However I can rest easy as it isn't my doing that this annihilation of the opposition that we have witnessed for the past four, or more, years is damaging F1 beyond immediate help. The question(s) we have to ask ourselves are or were MB sand bagging earlier in the year; or were the team that gave them a supposed run for it, bending the rules or not? A big up for Toro Rosso-Honda, that is some achievement and brilliant for Brendan Hartley, hopefully that malignant management at RB will see sense and give the lad a real go next year. Can't imagine what McLaren and Teflonso will be thinking about that one; as Niki used to say "what goes around, comes around" .
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Post by robmarsh on Oct 6, 2018 14:14:37 GMT
You are not alone Charles in thinking there is something fishy in the state of Denmark. The turn around between Mercedes and Ferrari and then the reversal had me saying the same to my better half yesterday. There has been so much stupid stuff done to spice up the show in F1 that I wouldn't put it past Wyatt Chase and Tonto to dream something up.
Likewise I always thought Hamilton driving into the barrier on the pit entrance in the 2007 Chinese GP a bit suspect for a man of his skill. It looked contrived to me and would fit in with the rumours that Mclaren agreed with the FIA that they would not win the championship that year to avoid a bigger sanction for stealing Ferrari secrets.
There have been too many close championships this century given the fact that ace drivers tend to win three or four championships on the trot. Maybe I am just tired but to quote Murray Walker, anything can happen Formula 1 and it usually does.
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Post by chrisb on Oct 6, 2018 15:05:15 GMT
i had the choice, Moto3 qualifying or F1 qualifying, tried to compromise and after some more inane comments, I think I can work out what the purpose of a bleep bleep tyre sensor does, Moto3 won, but I did watch the first F1 qualy, actually it was ok but what is going on at Team Renault`? and what McLaren must be saying to themselves is beyond comprehension, Historically you can't say Honda gets it right all the time, but they are incredible engineers and will get it nearly 'right' - certainly feel McLaren had a better chance with Honda than it does with Renault.
In previous times I would suspect Ron to be in talks with another car manufacturer as I always thought [in those days] Ron had an eye for the future, shame he didn't for staff communications, but this current chap I would question what he can see.
Do again question Ferrari, it just doesn't seem so organised as earlier this year, but Tonto and munchkins have done it again, don't think, despite my affection for the circuit, I'll be jumping out of bed to watch this one tomorrow,
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Post by charleselan on Oct 6, 2018 15:28:42 GMT
It is very hard not to have thoughts along those lines Rob. I have had some serious doubts about recent championship years for some time now, in fact I actually gave an outline of how the 2017 season would pan out on the MS forum, and it was as if i had scripted it. I also know that there was a strong feeling from the German fan base that something was not correct at the 2014 finalé, which cost Nico Rosberg a chance of the title; I also believe that some respected German commentators had similar doubts.
The problem is that the people within the F1 bubble are so arrogant and contemptuous of the fans that they really believe that they can feed them this nonsense with impunity. No doubt many of the so called respected motor sport scribes will try and feed us the story of how Ferrari's year went wrong as a result of Marchionne's death. If that were to be the case then the tales of how he did miraculous things for the Scuderia would fall somewhat flat on their face, as it is apparent that he built something with no sustainable strength i.e. there was no succession plan of note.
There also appear to be falsehoods being spread about with regard to this extra sensor being fitted to the Ferrari cars. Whiting and the FIA have denied its existence; yet Arrivebiene has insisted one has been fitted and has gone on record as saying that he is unhappy about it being made public knowledge.
On the other hand we had the so called MB "Party Mode" at the beginning of the season, which then went very quiet. However it appears that during FP1 the MB's suddenly produced prodigious speed at the end of the straights at Suzuka which were way quicker than any others. This then mysteriously evaporated, or was turned down in FP2.
Whatever games are being played it isn't good for the sport. F1 has had years of dominance throughout its history but they were short lived as others caught up and passed the dominant team. By my calculations we are about to see the fifth successive title go to MB on the trot and that is not good, no matter how one looks at it. I find it hard to fathom how Renault can see any marketable value in participating when they get their backside kicked every year in such a humiliating way, "bad publicity is better than no publicity", be b*ggered. Also where are all the other great car manufacturers waiting to enter.
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Post by robmarsh on Oct 6, 2018 17:52:53 GMT
Funny the Mercedes sudden domination from 2014 when they had only won three races in the previous four seasons. I know the engine technology changed but both Ferrari and Renault are not amateurs but yet they have looked like that for five years now.
I see in 2014 Bernie got found guilty of bribery and corruption in Germany but got let off with a wrist smack effectively.
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Post by René on Oct 6, 2018 17:54:26 GMT
It was all very disappointing and yes, it sometimes makes you wonder but for now I refuse to believe in conspiracies and fake results. That would be so cynical and bitter I just can't accept that idea. I will recharge myself for tomorrow and believe in a miracle. Max will be the man to disturb the Merc party, a race where everything goes wrong for the Silberpfeile! . Max will win, Seb will finish a strong second and Charles or Pierre takes his first podium. Just dreaming....
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Post by Carl on Oct 6, 2018 20:06:50 GMT
Funny the Mercedes sudden domination from 2014 when they had only won three races in the previous four seasons. I know the engine technology changed but both Ferrari and Renault are not amateurs but yet they have looked like that for five years now. I see in 2014 Bernie got found guilty of bribery and corruption in Germany but got let off with a wrist smack effectively. John Charles and Rob,
Didn't Saint Bernard pay for a verdict of "100million makes this court unsure"? Many others who could have accused Ecclestone of dirty dealing may also, like this German court, have had their silence bought.
But any suspicions are well taken because the runt who ruined Grand Prix racing never made an honest deal or signed an honest contract in his deceitful stain of a life. After his massive corruption of the sport, further corruption is always possible.
The prevalence of astonishing dishonesty worldwide makes the idea that this is an age of information more and more laughable and woebegone to dystopia.
-anonymous curmudgeon
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2018 21:03:56 GMT
I have only read about qualifying on the news sites, modern F1 is not compelling enough these days for me to rise early to view, sad but true. Not impressed by this sudden return of dominance by MB, I am almost beginning to wear a "Tin Hat" about the whole affair. However I can rest easy as it isn't my doing that this annihilation of the opposition that we have witnessed for the past four, or more, years is damaging F1 beyond immediate help. The question(s) we have to ask ourselves are or were MB sand bagging earlier in the year; or were the team that gave them a supposed run for it, bending the rules or not? A big up for Toro Rosso-Honda, that is some achievement and brilliant for Brendan Hartley, hopefully that malignant management at RB will see sense and give the lad a real go next year. Can't imagine what McLaren and Teflonso will be thinking about that one; as Niki used to say "what goes around, comes around" . 1) Finally a race that is in my time zone! The season is so biased towards you guys in the eastern hemisphere ;-) 2) Carl, you, Charles and Rob definitely seem to be going straight to 'conspiracy' because of the swing in competitiveness back towards Mercedes. Mercedes current advantage isn't any bigger or more sudden than Ferrari's mid season advantage. With the swing to Ferrari we were delighted that they'd achieved that and weren't looking for conspiracy as the cause. There is always ebb and flow in a development race. I'm hopeful that Ferrari will continue pushing to get back ahead this season, even if it seems this season is lost. 3) 100% with you on this. I hope that Honda really have created a competitive p.u now, and that Hartley does enough the rest of this season to retain the Toro Rosso seat.
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Post by robmarsh on Oct 6, 2018 21:13:43 GMT
I was always sceptical of conspiracy theories until a massive one was uncovered in my own backyard so to speak, with the aid of our former president, his cronies and a band of Indian brothers. Given the modern morals and ever increasing greed and crime prevalent in the world nothing would surprise me any more.
I didn't find Ferrari's increase in speed suspect because it was on a linear progression from the previous season. What I found suspect was the sudden return to superiority by Mercedes when their linear progression was going the other way.
Food for thought and just putting it out there. Use it, don't use it, I don't mind.
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Post by Carl on Oct 6, 2018 22:36:48 GMT
In a world where major elections are swayed by foreign interference, being open to the possibility of conspiracy makes one a realist, but I don't know whether one exists in Formula One. Interactions involving massive amounts of money/prestige have always been targets of corrupt manipulation, but can also be honest. The examples of corruption over the years are rampant in racing. I think racing is more honest when less money is involved, but even in the more affordable classes, there are often little Ecclestones.
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Post by Carl on Oct 7, 2018 1:41:34 GMT
All controversy will be quieted on race day by the involvement of one highly-regarded enthusiast with extraordinary influence.
Before the start, Toto Wolff, Maurizio Arrivabene and Christian Horner will all peer intently at the Turn 2 grandstand to see what team apparel Mikael will be wearing, by which the race's outcome will be determined.
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Post by René on Oct 7, 2018 4:55:27 GMT
All controversy will be quieted on race day by the involvement of one highly-regarded enthusiast with extraordinary influence. Before the start, Toto Wolff, Maurizio Arrivabene and Christian Horner will all peer intently at the Turn 2 grandstand to see what team apparel Mikael will be wearing, by which the race's outcome will be determined. It worked for me at Spa! Then I guess we'll see either Pierre or Brandon on the top step of the podium! I am quite sure I saw this Danish looking guy with a Toro Rosso rear wing with working DRS on his head in the grandstands! Enjoy the race guys! FORZA FERRARI
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Post by robmarsh on Oct 7, 2018 8:06:29 GMT
As a race for the neutral it was great as long as you didn't focus on the lead. I fear Ferrari are disintegrating rather rapidly. Once again Vettel panicked and lost a possible second place and Kimi was only conspicuous by his invisibility. There is no way Ferrari should have been behind any of the Red Bulls. Max drove very well I thought to keep Bottas honest and Danny Ric did well to come 4th.
The Mercedes turn around since Ferrari was crowing at Silverstone has been phenomenal.
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