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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 7:23:17 GMT
Thank you Carl.
I was back here on Friday night, in the office in KL now, waiting to go into the weekly management meeting, still jet lagged.
I don't know, I am not keen to attend to be honest.
Cheers, Lucio
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 9:57:05 GMT
As I notice my comments are not very popular - fine - just to say that I supported Kimi to win yesterday, as a hark back to the old school, but that I am still capable to recognize (and enjoy watching) it when I see a great driver at the top of his game, not that there have been that many recently. I don't want to "mourn" an outstanding talent (like Hamilton is) when he is retired and complain they don't make 'em anymore, I want to fully appreciate it while he's still going strong.
I have always been a sucker for genius and never had time for nostalgia.
Over and out.
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Post by robmarsh on Sept 3, 2018 11:08:19 GMT
Sorry guys, just noted that nobody here voted for Hamilton and that is the second or third time in row. I didn't vote, I never do.
It seems this forum of ours is seriously underestimating the stand out driver on the grid.
I always vote with my heart Lucio rather than my head on these things. I agree with you that Hamilton is the best driver out there at the moment and is driving very well indeed. I just can't bring myself to support him or the Mercedes team. I have supported Ferrari since 1962 and am not going to change now. Even when I supported Stewart and Senna I always loved it when Ferrari won.
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Post by charleselan on Sept 3, 2018 11:27:16 GMT
As I notice my comments are not very popular - fine - just to say that I supported Kimi to win yesterday, as a hark back to the old school, but that I am still capable to recognize (and enjoy watching) it when I see a great driver at the top of his game, not that there have been that many recently. I don't want to "mourn" an outstanding talent (like Hamilton is) when he is retired and complain they don't make 'em anymore, I want to fully appreciate it while he's still going strong. I have always been a sucker for genius and never had time for nostalgia. Over and out. Lucio, I don't think your views are unpopular in the least, we all have our own take on things, none of us anymore correct than others. It is great that you express your views so well and logically. There is little doubt that TMH is driving well at present, especially now that he is not under constant pressure from his team mate. My main point yesterday was that i felt Kimi drove beautifully and very like the man of old, he was let down by the car, or as Rob has so succinctly put, poor team management. Your probably not old enough to appreciate nostalgia . JC
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Post by charleselan on Sept 3, 2018 11:44:31 GMT
Sorry guys, just noted that nobody here voted for Hamilton and that is the second or third time in row. I didn't vote, I never do.
It seems this forum of ours is seriously underestimating the stand out driver on the grid.
I always vote with my heart Lucio rather than my head on these things. I agree with you that Hamilton is the best driver out there at the moment and is driving very well indeed. I just can't bring myself to support him or the Mercedes team. I have supported Ferrari since 1962 and am not going to change now. Even when I supported Stewart and Senna I always loved it when Ferrari won. Rob, Liked your two posts this morning, especially the bits about Ferrari team management and Sebastian's stupid and rash attempt at overtaking Kimi which ultimately cost him dear. There appears to be something going on at Ferrari, for why would they compromise Vettel's championship the way they are. For someone who apparently controls the team Sebastian seems to have little input at present. It is almost like the Ferrari of old where the drivers were encouraged to hack hell out of one another, and blow the consequences. Interestingly S*YF1 were gossiping about so much talk that Kimi's time was coming to an end, and that Charles Leclerc was moving up. Doesn't appear to be a smart move to me as Charles hasn't really shone that much of late, he definitely needs another year to develop before being put in the deep end. At present he is barely dealing with the much maligned Marcus Ericsson. Very sorry to hear that Grosjean and the Haas team have been disqualified after a Renault protest, due to a floor infringement. Romain did not deserve that as he drove superbly all weekend. Max is going to need some firm team management over the coming years. As endearing his comments after gaining the penalty might be, they cost the team a possible point and no doubt money, can't imagine Ken Tyrrell or Colin Chapman having any of that. JC
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Post by robmarsh on Sept 3, 2018 15:20:28 GMT
Thanks John Charles. I agree with your comments about something going on at Ferrari and it seems to have been that way since Marchionne passed away. The normal politics after the king has died upsetting the team? Mark Hughes mentioned in his race report that I read after I posted on here that Seb has to play a management role at Ferrari as well as drive, something Lewis doesn't have to do and which ties in with Lucio's comment about Mercedes being used to winning.
The Sky commentary was becoming quite nauseating this weekend on a few fronts not least about trying to be in the know re Ferrari. I like Nico, Martin when he is not being patriotic, Damon and Anthony Davidson. Johhny Herbert is also ok. The others come across as schoolboys.
Like you I don't think Leclerc is ready for Ferrari yet. A season at Haas alongside Grosjean or Kmag would serve everyone better. Since he was so strongly touted to join Ferrari he has dropped the ball somewhat. If he does that just on a possible drive what would the presure of an actual drive do?
Max was doing so well and then reverted to his old tactics and pig headed way. I don't think he acheived anything at all by not letting Valteri by amd then getting a tow to keep himout of Sebs way. I am sure Mercedes would have helped.
A big pity about Haas and Grosjean but they can still appeal though I don't think they really have a leg to stand on.
Kimi drove an excellent race and once again the Ferrari pit wall let him down by not telling him to stop charging after two laps when he had got within 22 secs of Hamilton and would be ahead of him after the pitstop. He would have also closed on Bottas a bit later and with better tyres. I just don't understand the lack of decisiveness on the Ferrari pit wall at all.
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Post by Carl on Sept 3, 2018 15:48:51 GMT
As I notice my comments are not very popular - fine - just to say that I supported Kimi to win yesterday, as a hark back to the old school, but that I am still capable to recognize (and enjoy watching) it when I see a great driver at the top of his game, not that there have been that many recently. I don't want to "mourn" an outstanding talent (like Hamilton is) when he is retired and complain they don't make 'em anymore, I want to fully appreciate it while he's still going strong. I have always been a sucker for genius and never had time for nostalgia. Over and out. Lucio, If Hamilton's character approached the quality of his driving, he'd be universally admired. It doesn't and he isn't. Some whose excellence may define them as geniuses are insufferable due to weakness of character, a harsh assessment I hear at times from my lady friend.
Cheers, Carl
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Post by charleselan on Sept 3, 2018 16:13:32 GMT
According to some sites Kimi has a contract that stipulates if he is quicker in practice he is allowed to race for the win. This would tend to disprove the long held belief that Sebastian has the call on every occasion. Something definitely going on at Ferrari, a lot of power shifting it would appear. Another thing being put about today is the fact that Charles Leclerc is almost certain to be in, as it was Marchionne's wish and the current bosses wish to fulfil his legacy. Bad move as I do not think he is ready, and with Kimi driving like he is at present and what he brings to the team technically it is utter lunacy. Can't think that Liberty Media will be too happy with the way this championship is unfolding, it is not in their interests to have TMH & MB steamroller to another win. I just can't see Sebastian and Ferrari coming good, and will eat my hat if they do (its made of rice paper ). Rob, I have never been a fan of the S*YF1 set up, and have said so many times. Nico is like a breath of fresh air and works well with Damon, the latter always strikes me as though he is holding back and not being his natural self some of the time. Johnny Herbert is not good as a pundit in my opinion as he is too jingoistic, shame as i always liked him as a driver. Can't stand Kravitz, and do not warm to Paul De Resta and would have a feeling that his post race interviews were inflammatory to some. The grid walk is absolutely dire and has been for ages, Martin can do much better than this. If you aren't allowed to interview the "big boys" what is the point, and I am not interested in what some privileged celeb has to say. One good thing was that Martin spoke with JEV who was working for French TV and he is obviously in a happy place. He mentioned that he wasn't interested in coming back to F1 to race around at the back as he had a great career in Formula E and Sportcars. Such a shame that Marko dumped him as he would have been a top class driver in my opinion, and maybe Sebastian Buemi as well. Marko's harsh treatment has probably come back to bite him on the backside of late .
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Post by charleselan on Sept 3, 2018 16:15:18 GMT
As I notice my comments are not very popular - fine - just to say that I supported Kimi to win yesterday, as a hark back to the old school, but that I am still capable to recognize (and enjoy watching) it when I see a great driver at the top of his game, not that there have been that many recently. I don't want to "mourn" an outstanding talent (like Hamilton is) when he is retired and complain they don't make 'em anymore, I want to fully appreciate it while he's still going strong. I have always been a sucker for genius and never had time for nostalgia. Over and out. Lucio, If Hamilton's character approached the quality of his driving, he'd be universally admired. It doesn't and he isn't. Some whose excellence may define them as geniuses are insufferable due to weakness of character.
Cheers, Carl
Carl, My sentiment precisely. John Charles
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Post by René on Sept 3, 2018 20:21:47 GMT
Yesterday, I was too disappointed to respond in a balanced way as it felt like another Championship slipping away.
I like Vettel. I like him as a person and I think he is a very good driver. His work ethic is fantastic and he always brings a positive vibe to a team which was much needed at Ferrari after the Alonso era. Furthermore he has a true passion for Ferrari.
But it looks like Sebastian is struggling with the pressure that comes with being the lead driver at the Scuderia Ferrari.
Of course there was pressure at Red Bull but never on the same level as now at Maranello. Winning his first title was unexpected in 2010 and the following years everything was a bonus, not a 'must perform'. That doesn't take anything away from his achievements, he was phenomenal, but the expectation level was not as high as it is now.
2015 was a fantastic honeymoon. No expectations regarding the Championship and everything was better than 2014. Three wins was a dream start at Ferrari.
In 2016 it became soon clear the car was not the Merc beater as was hoped for. Very disappointing but also less pressure on the drivers to win because the car was obviously not competitive enough.
And then came 2017. From day one it was clear this car was much better and Vettel did some fantastic races. And now the championship became a reality and the pressure started to build. Italy expected him to bring the big trophy back to Maranello. And then came the mistakes. In the end the mistakes were not only Vettel's but also Ferrari's but it is still a missed opportunity.
And now this season. The car is even more competitive, according to many even the best car on the grid. There is no excuse anymore. This is the year. But Hamilton is in his prime, driving better than ever. The pressure is enormous. And Sebastian seems to crack. The mistake in France, throwing away a home win in Hockenheim, now this.
I really, really hope Seb can bring the WDC back to Italy, it will be a fantastic feeling, but I am feeling less sure it will happen. To beat Hamilton on this level needs a perfect end to the season. Lewis will surely have one DNF at some stage but when he's not out of the race he will normally finish on the podium. I thought Spa was the turning point for Seb but it wasn't.
Well, hope springs eternal. Forza Ferrari.
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Post by René on Sept 4, 2018 11:42:30 GMT
A thought for you, although I understand what you are saying, do we really live in a world of peace? There are atrocities all around us that compare to anything from WW11. I believe that it was more a case that the world was more stoical back then, times were much harder for everyone particularly in the 1950's. I think your analogy of WW11 however is a good one, in that people were more used to death and could maybe accept it more than we do today. Not to say that it didn't have the same emotional consequence however. JC Of course, there was never (and never will be) world peace. I meant 'the free world', the western democratic countries. I do believe the general attitude towards danger has shifted a lot. Legal accountability as Jim mentioned has certainly a lot to do with that but attitudes and opinions have changed also (think tobacco, drinking and driving, etc.).
But I'm always torn in the safety discussion. Time changes and the world doesn't stand still. We don't want to see drivers getting hurt and certainly don't want to go back to the number of fatalities we saw in the early years of the sport. But there is no denying the danger element made the sport what it was. The safer you make it, the further drivers will go with blocking and other unsportive behaviour on track, because there is no real risk.
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Post by René on Sept 4, 2018 11:45:17 GMT
As I notice my comments are not very popular - fine - just to say that I supported Kimi to win yesterday, as a hark back to the old school, but that I am still capable to recognize (and enjoy watching) it when I see a great driver at the top of his game, not that there have been that many recently. I don't want to "mourn" an outstanding talent (like Hamilton is) when he is retired and complain they don't make 'em anymore, I want to fully appreciate it while he's still going strong. I have always been a sucker for genius and never had time for nostalgia. Over and out. Lucio, this is not a popularity contest! Your posts are always a good read and bring a lot to the discussion. And I actually don't disagree with you, Hamilton is an exceptional talent. He ruins most of my sunday afternoons the way Senna so often did!
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Post by René on Sept 4, 2018 11:48:02 GMT
Sorry guys, just noted that nobody here voted for Hamilton and that is the second or third time in row. I didn't vote, I never do. It seems this forum of ours is seriously underestimating the stand out driver on the grid.
Like Rob, I could never vote for a Mercedes driver. I always vote Ferrari, no matter how good or bad they are!
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Post by chrisb on Sept 5, 2018 7:49:11 GMT
Lucio, I have never considered your views as unpopular and certainly enjoy your views - in fact on all things- as it does give me another view of life and that I treasure - so thank you, Lucio,
and I would actually add that sentiment to you all, I do so enjoy the difference of opinion or view, be they Ferrari or Mercedes fans, or neither, but it is all about enhancing my knowledge, the sharing of a common interest and the wonderful sense of humour that pervades is a joy.
I am always reluctant to vote for Lewis, I have tremendous respect for how he got to where he is at, anyone who attains success by sheer hard work and devotion from his Father, which is why despite my apathy to some aspects of their riding/ driving I also have that respect for Marquez and Alonso, both came up the hard way as Lewis did and it was their skill, not their money that got them there. What I don't like about Lewis and Marquez is their, I suppose ruthlessness, but I still think you can be ruthless without being dangerous or act like a spoilt brat. It is not to degenerate his skills - because I think he is good, how good I am not sure - he was very good, but is he now? yes, but how good? but I suppose after so many years of dominance I could do with another winner which is why I tend not to vote for him.
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Post by chrisb on Sept 5, 2018 7:56:43 GMT
a quick thought, 1954/5 the return of the Silver Arrows, vs 1954 Ferrari and the hoped-for Lancia, Did Ferrari shoot itself in the foot by not persuading Ascari, who was probably the best driver of that time to stay with them and take the fight to Fangio and Mercedes? is there a parallel with today? would Alonso have been WDC in a Ferrari last year and possibly this?
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