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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 15:51:55 GMT
The race also confirmed - as if there were the need, and apparently they do need to be reminded in Maranello - that they need a better second driver to fight Hamilton. Kimi is a great guy, still capable of a great lap in the right conditions, but he can't held it anymore against people like Hamilton over a race distance. Leclerc is not the answer, it's not anymore 1974 or whatever, it's a completely different ball game.
Ferrari have bested Mercedes on the technical side, engine and chassis, but their drivers', race's and team's management is not working. A great driver is showing what top, top level means - a superior car and good (but not great) drivers are not enough. Better consult the Pentagon for a new strategy, if they can't find better advice or come to their senses.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 15:55:20 GMT
Sorry guys, just noted that nobody here voted for Hamilton and that is the second or third time in row. I didn't vote, I never do.
It seems this forum of ours is seriously underestimating the stand out driver on the grid.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 16:13:44 GMT
Pity also - and I'm done as I have to go back to work in the morning - to see the Monza crowd booing Hamilton. They missed a opportunity to show sportsmanship and appreciation towards a great champion who is only doing his best, which is no less than what he should be doing. One of the many reasons I haven't been a Ferrari fan since Clay Regazzoni left the team.
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Post by charleselan on Sept 2, 2018 16:30:18 GMT
Sorry Lucio, can't agree with that analysis one bit. Kimi drove a brilliant race but the car, not the driver, created the tyre issue that allowed TMH to win the race, along in no small part thanks to the help of Bottas. The Mercs are nowhere near as off the pace as we are lead to believe, just check the sector times out to see their top speed readings.
Vettel had yet another brain f*rt and it is he who is throwing this championship away, and I have the feeling that the Ferrari management are beginning to realise this.
Ricciardo ain't the answer as he is being blown away by Max, and i was super impressed with how young Gasly refused to concede to Ricciardo for several laps, that boy is going to push Max. Pierre also dealt beautifully with some of Ricciardo's late lunges.
Max somewhat blotted his copybook with that move on Bottas, shame as he drove superbly up until that point. However I will say that it would never have happened had Bottas been more decisive from the get go, he just makes one realise how underrated Nico Rosberg was. The latter is really good on S*YF1 and full of praise for TMH, shame the latter cannot see past his small mindedness and be equally complimentary.
Not impressed with Kravitz (yet again) when he made the truly terrible comment that Kimi ruined his tyres by driving too hard, that guy is an idiot, if Kimi had not driven hard he would have criticised him for being too slow. Also Kimi is known to be easy on his tyres, as Sebastian pointed out in the pre race interview with Brundle, so obviously the dim wit cannot fathom out an issue with the car, or is it yet another example of Kravitz having a pop at Kimi.
Another fine drive by Romain Grosjean as well, really pleased to see that one.
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Post by Jamie on Sept 2, 2018 18:05:08 GMT
Well that was Ferrari’s race and Hamilton stole it! A brilliant, relentless drive from Lewis with some decisive moves when required, really enjoyed the dice at the start with Kimi as well. I would have quite liked Kimi to win but I’m always happy when a storming drive does the job so kudos to Lewis here. Sorry John but I think TK had a point about Kimi on his new tyres as he seemed to go hard on them too soon and we all know how that affects them, it’s not great but a fact of the tyres as they are now...too sensitive. I’m surprised that Lewis was able to get anywhere near the Ferrari’s to be honest, before the weekend I thought the red cars were going to run and hide but it’s quite close indeed but Maranello still has the edge.
It looked like a great atmosphere, quite spicy at the end with all the booing but brilliant nevertheless, I must get to Monza one year. And the Merc engineers comment at the end was hilarious....’in formation please for our Italian friends’ (or something like that 😆 payback for Sebs comment at Silverstone and a funny touch.
My god it’s close on performance though, I still feel that Seb will take it by seasons end but if it’s Hamilton he will of thoroughly deserved it with drives like that.
Agree With you John about Nico’s punditry.....he’s really good and seems like such a nice guy...at peace with himself now his driving career is over 👍
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Post by charleselan on Sept 2, 2018 19:04:18 GMT
Jamie,
Kimi had no option but to push, what was he supposed to do cruise around and let TMH catch him up. He had worked hard to build that gap, only for Bottas to back him up into No. 44. As they said in commentary due to the weather on Friday Ferrari missed the opportunity to run a race sim on the yellow tyre and that was their undoing.
Also I don't hold with the theory that the Ferrari is that much quicker, or as TMH would put it "they breeze past us in the straight". If that as the case then Kimi would have passed Bottas without batting an eyelid, even with DRS he could not, what does that say.
I do not see Vettel winning the championship now; it will take some serious problems for TMH to loose now.
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Post by Jamie on Sept 2, 2018 19:31:19 GMT
To clarify my earlier comment, I think Ferrari missed a trick by not measuring Kimi’s pace after his stop, he came out well ahead of Hamilton and rooted the tyres going that quickly straight away. They had the knowledge of Sebs earlier run that blistered the softs very quickly and they should have taken heed....its very easy in hindsight of course but Brundle picked it up straight away.....I think they made a mistake here. I also think it was pretty obvious that Bottas would be left out to make life hard for Kimi but his tyres were blistered badly but the time he caught him which made it even more difficult to get past.
I think the performance advantage is quite small but the Ferrari is definitely a quicker package now and at a wider range of circuits I wouldn’t bet so I still think the championship is there for Seb.....if he has a clean run with no balls ups. Seven races left and 30 points difference, it’s still doable if the Ferrari remains quicker, Hamilton looks very ‘up for it’ though......that was a great drive today.
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Post by charleselan on Sept 2, 2018 21:34:52 GMT
I understand what you are saying and with that argument you are correct. However Kimi pitted before Hamilton and Ferrari had no idea when he was going to stop, or what speed he would have when he came out of his stop.
It is also my understanding that the Ferrari is supposed to be kinder on its tyres than the Merc especially in hotter conditions, so one would have to assume that the temperatures at Monza today were somewhat cooler than normal therefore favouring Mercedes Benz.
My issue with Kravitz comment was the fact that he said it in such a way that made Kimi out to have driven like an idiot and rooted his tyres, it wasn't balanced or insightful. as it squarely laid the blame at Kimi's feet. If he had mentioned it the way have described then that would have been more acceptable. In mitigation of Ferrari they might have felt that Sebastian's tyres became badly worn due to the fact that his car had sustained damage in the run in with Hamilton, they also had no reference of how the tyres would behave due to the lack of dry running on Friday.
Another interesting factor is the fact that Hamilton was able to drive the majority of the race in Kimi's wake, something that apparently isn't a good idea with these current cars; yet it didn't compromise his tyres one bit. Maybe the Monza spec cars should form the aero rules for the future.
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Post by Carl on Sept 3, 2018 3:56:06 GMT
Pity also - and I'm done as I have to go back to work in the morning - to see the Monza crowd booing Hamilton. They missed a opportunity to show sportsmanship and appreciation towards a great champion who is only doing his best, which is no less than what he should be doing. One of the many reasons I haven't been a Ferrari fan since Clay Regazzoni left the team. The origin of "fan" is "fanatic" and poor sportsmanship is sadly the norm in other sports and other countries, indicating that sports fans are somewhat childish, present company excepted...
From Merriam-Webster:
Definition of fan:
1 : an enthusiastic devotee (as of a sport or a performing art) usually as a spectator 1a : probably short for fanatic
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Post by Carl on Sept 3, 2018 4:07:47 GMT
Sorry guys, just noted that nobody here voted for Hamilton and that is the second or third time in row. I didn't vote, I never do.
It seems this forum of ours is seriously underestimating the stand out driver on the grid.
Round Table Gods may vote five times at each Grand Prix, but the vote must prove correct or one's infallibility is questioned. Accordingly, John Charles and I have also never voted. See Rene for vote purchase details...
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Post by Carl on Sept 3, 2018 4:31:31 GMT
A few observations after watching both this morning's Italian Grand Prix and, pausing to cleanse the palate, Champ Cars at Portland... 1. Tyres are important in every series, but their level of importance in Formula One can please only Pirelli. After a short while, the announcers incessantly discussed tyre strategy. 2. David Croft's silliness and strained hyperbole make Champ Car announcer Leigh Diffey look great, not easy because Leigh Diffey has speech patterns nearly identical to the obnoxious infant on Family Guy. 3. At Monza, early rain would have resulted in a better race with a premium on driving skill, and possible winners would have numbered more than four.
Leigh Diffey Stewie Griffin
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Post by robmarsh on Sept 3, 2018 6:50:54 GMT
I think Hamilton's drive and Mercedes strategy calls were top notch. Seb scored an own goal unnecessarily. I don't know why he was trying so hard to get by Kimi so early. At worst 18 points was better than the 12 he got. Ferrari could have scored a one two quite easily with a bit of calmness and firm team management. Ferrari are dithering around with no guidance on team orders whilst Mercedes are very specific. That is 38 points Seb has lost because Ferrari management are not clear on team orders. In fact they can't even make their mind up on drivers!
Finally Ferrari picked ten sets of supersoft tyres for the race and only one set of softs which is why they didn't do any running on the softs in practice. They had none. To me that is monumental stupidity. Anyone with an ounce of risk management sense and who has been following F1 closely this season would know you don't do that as the tyres are to unreliable to make such a call. Since Ferrari are close to the F1 action I would have thought they may have realised this! In the book on John Barnard he mentions that the current way F1 teams work means that specialised silos form and there is no one with enough oversight to ensure the front wing men talk to the side pod and rear wing designers. Each team develops their own section to what they think is best and blame the other design team if it doesn't. There is no compromise. The Williams rear wing at Silverstone was a perfect example. Ferrari obviously had the same problem with their choice of tyres.
To my mind Ferrari management has more to answer for than Seb has.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 7:10:01 GMT
That 38 point swing if I recall right is quite the same as of last year debacle at Singapore. There too Vettel lost it at the start and there too the management didn't rein in their drivers. I recall I did comment on that on MS.
Arrivabene replied piqued in Monza to the Italian press who were asking why Kimi didn't let Vettel after the start (!) that they employ drivers not butlers.
Both driver and management have to answer and, in a sense, since the management has chosen the driver and has put all their eggs in Vettel's basket, then, yes, the management has a lot to answer. That is an old story now. They turned it around technically, but management wise on track it is not working.
But at the bottom of it all there is - one - the fact that Merc knows how to win and - two - a great driver head and shoulder above the rest. Vettel has been found wanting, exactly when one would expect a four times (!) world champion would finally come into his element. Hamilton, indeed.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 7:14:17 GMT
For the second year in a row. For the sake of clarity.
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Post by Carl on Sept 3, 2018 7:15:52 GMT
... I have to go back to work in the morning - Lucio, Have a safe flight! Will you be able to attend the MotoGP at Sepang?
Cheers, Carl
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