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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 2:40:42 GMT
That was a very exciting Qualifying session. I'm picking that where we're seeing the cars qualifying two by two (i.e Mercedes, Ferrari, Toro Rosso, Haas, Force India) that indicates the relative performance of the cars in those conditions, with both drivers able to extract close to the maximum performance. Where we're seeing big gaps between the cars in a team, i.e Sainz over Hulk, Stroll over Sirotkin, Alonso over VanD, and (it pains me to say) Verstappen over Ricciardo, that indicates either the faster driver has done something special, or the slower driver has had a problem (I'm sure thats what happened to Danny Ric), or is a bit rubbish. The qualifying outcomes should result in an exciting race with a number of cars out of position relative to the predicted dry conditions.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 2:56:43 GMT
One last post (for the moment). This race will be a real test for the recently reformed Ver-crash-en. He's starting from 7th, in amongst Honda powered Toro Rosso's and behind Sainz in a Renault, with the Ferrari powered Haas cars on his gearbox. With all those cars so close, a long run down to the tight first turn, and a track where passing is difficult, the opportunities for a bit of contact are high. He's done well in the past four races (only two light touches) but I think the temptation to get back on track with his quest to hit every car on the grid this season might prove too strong.
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Post by mikael on Jul 29, 2018 3:13:46 GMT
... and the cars are open wheel V8 n.a. powered, with aero set up to allow close following and racing... Hi Jim - sorry for being so "exacting", but isn't F2 V6 (3.4 ltr) turbocharged this year? That's my understanding. (Last year it was indeed V8, n.a. 4.0 ltr). Both (2017 and 2018) are huge, rather low-strung engines! Best wishes Mikael
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 4:02:34 GMT
... and the cars are open wheel V8 n.a. powered, with aero set up to allow close following and racing... Hi Jim - sorry for being so "exacting", but isn't F2 V6 (3.4 ltr) turbocharged this year? That's my understanding. (Last year it was indeed V8, n.a. 4.0 ltr). Both (2017 and 2018) are huge, rather low-strung engines! Best wishes Mikael I hate it when facts get in the way of a good opinion ;-) You are correct Mikael, 3.4 l V6 Turbo, replaced the 4.0 l V8. I'm not sure I'd agree that around 620bhp is particularly low strung, and in a spec class, high strung and unreliable power units wouldn't really be what you'd want - its supposed to be all about the drivers after all.
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Post by Carl on Jul 29, 2018 4:13:03 GMT
Time for a bit of a handgrenade........ I've just watched the F2 feature race. That went from so wet that they were track drying behind the safety car on full wets, to a near dry circuit over 34 laps. The race was spectacular. Very close, extremely skillful, with the drivers reacting to the changing conditions to extract the maximum from their cars, brilliant! The F3 race is on now, and its also tighter than a tight thing. Since the only difference between the cars is set up, and the driver, and the cars are open wheel V8 n.a. powered, with aero set up to allow close following and racing...... I'll launch my handgrenade, and assert to all the posters who feel that F1 is too car focused, and would like it to be all about driver skill, and close racing, You're watching the wrong series!!!!!!!! F2 and F3 are the series you should be watching. Enjoy that, but let me enjoy watching F1 continue on its hybrid powered, aero detailed, ridiculously over complex, Team focused path as the pinnacle of motorsport ;-) P.S - I definitely recommend watching the F2 main race. It was excellent racing. Maybe the current Formula Two should be the championship for drivers and Formula One for manufacturers, with no restrictions on aerodynamics or computer software assist. The best drivers could test themselves in a series requiring comprehensive driver control and lesser talents would perhaps be more comfortable in the manufacturers' series. F1 and F2 could simply exchange numbers.
Who would then be on first and what (computer assists) on second.
James Allison: You throw the ball to first base.
Adrian Newey: Then who gets it?
Allison: Naturally. Now you've got it.
Newey: What's the name of the guy on first?
Allison: Who's on first! What's on second!
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Post by Carl on Jul 29, 2018 4:24:43 GMT
Hi Jim - sorry for being so "exacting", but isn't F2 V6 (3.4 ltr) turbocharged this year? That's my understanding. (Last year it was indeed V8, n.a. 4.0 ltr). Both (2017 and 2018) are huge, rather low-strung engines! Best wishes Mikael I hate it when facts get in the way of a good opinion ;-) You are correct Mikael, 3.4 l V6 Turbo, replaced the 4.0 l V8. I'm not sure I'd agree that around 620bhp is particularly low strung, and in a spec class, high strung and unreliable power units wouldn't really be what you'd want - its supposed to be all about the drivers after all. During their epic clashes at Team McLaren, Senna and Prost had about 650 bhp, only about 5% more than the awesomely fast F2 of today.
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Post by Jamie on Jul 29, 2018 7:36:36 GMT
Time for a bit of a handgrenade........ I've just watched the F2 feature race. That went from so wet that they were track drying behind the safety car on full wets, to a near dry circuit over 34 laps. The race was spectacular. Very close, extremely skillful, with the drivers reacting to the changing conditions to extract the maximum from their cars, brilliant! The F3 race is on now, and its also tighter than a tight thing. Since the only difference between the cars is set up, and the driver, and the cars are open wheel V8 n.a. powered, with aero set up to allow close following and racing...... I'll launch my handgrenade, and assert to all the posters who feel that F1 is too car focused, and would like it to be all about driver skill, and close racing, You're watching the wrong series!!!!!!!! F2 and F3 are the series you should be watching. Enjoy that, but let me enjoy watching F1 continue on its hybrid powered, aero detailed, ridiculously over complex, Team focused path as the pinnacle of motorsport ;-) P.S - I definitely recommend watching the F2 main race. It was excellent racing. It was good Jim wasn’t it 👍 It’s a brilliant series and, as can be seen in some previous posts, I very often look forward to the F2 race more than the main event 😀 Thankfully, it kept the close, exciting racing after a complete change of specification this year so it is possible to make a modern single seater that can race......Ross Brawn please take note.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 7:38:37 GMT
Time for a bit of a handgrenade........ I've just watched the F2 feature race. That went from so wet that they were track drying behind the safety car on full wets, to a near dry circuit over 34 laps. The race was spectacular. Very close, extremely skillful, with the drivers reacting to the changing conditions to extract the maximum from their cars, brilliant! The F3 race is on now, and its also tighter than a tight thing. Since the only difference between the cars is set up, and the driver, and the cars are open wheel V8 n.a. powered, with aero set up to allow close following and racing...... I'll launch my handgrenade, and assert to all the posters who feel that F1 is too car focused, and would like it to be all about driver skill, and close racing, You're watching the wrong series!!!!!!!! F2 and F3 are the series you should be watching. Enjoy that, but let me enjoy watching F1 continue on its hybrid powered, aero detailed, ridiculously over complex, Team focused path as the pinnacle of motorsport ;-) P.S - I definitely recommend watching the F2 main race. It was excellent racing. Maybe the current Formula Two should be the championship for drivers and Formula One for manufacturers, with no restrictions on aerodynamics or computer software assist. The best drivers could test themselves in a series requiring comprehensive driver control and lesser talents would perhaps be more comfortable in the manufacturers' series. F1 and F2 could simply exchange numbers. I like it Carl. L.M could run them as parallel series, with TV coverage like MotoGP, so a GP weekend has something for everyone. I'm not sure I'd agree with switching numbers (in my mind the high tech formula is always going to be the pinnacle). Might have to shift to letters, FD (D for Driver) and FA (for Freakin' Awesome!)
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Post by chrisb on Jul 29, 2018 8:22:11 GMT
I stillhaven't really bought into the modern F2 - and thanks to Jamie I am at least aware of it, as i won't get sxy on principal i only get to watch it on ytub and that generally is when Jamie mentions it, and inevitably it is really worth watching so amalways grateful for that reminder -
what would be fantastic is if there could be some stand alone races as well? it would be great - for instance if say there a F2 race back at Birmingham or Zandvoort-
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Post by mikael on Jul 29, 2018 8:25:49 GMT
I'm not sure I'd agree that around 620bhp is particularly low strung. Now I may be annoying ... but 620 HP for a 3.4 L turbocharged racing engine - it's comparable with a new standard Porsche 911 Turbo S (560 HP for a 3.8 L engine), so I still think it's low-strung for a supposedly full-blooded racing engine. But as you say, it's a spec-series. 620 HP for a 3.4 L - that's 182 HP per litre. Now I cannot resist bragging about my old (2005), trusty Mazda 13B Wankel engine, which supposedly develops 192 HP per litre at the red-line (again, it's a Wankel, but non-turbocharged). It's good! In comparison, the F1 engines are truly amazing. I don't know how the fuel flow rate is for an F2 engine, but I kind of imagine it's larger than the 100 kg/hour allowed in F1. And how much do the best F1 engines develop now, "raw", without the electric motor (MGU-K)? Probably 800 HP (and 200 HP for the electric motor). So it's something like 500 HP per litre at 100 kg fuel per hour.
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Post by René on Jul 29, 2018 8:59:55 GMT
Could that pass even take place these days? Senna would have been screaming for "Blue flags", and Mansell probably would have been 1 to 1.5 sec behind to avoid cooking his tyres. I think if we had radio transmissions back then like we have now, Mansell would have been the king of all whiners!
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Post by René on Jul 29, 2018 9:13:14 GMT
Questionable observations from qualifying in Hungary: Contemptuous at not being selected to win by anyone here, Lewis Hamilton was brilliant throughout qualifying. Several team meteorologists are headed home tonight at their own expense. Daniel Ricciardo is wondering if he may be Red Bull's #3 driver. Absolutely, Lewis was very good but so was Valtteri. The Merc obviously worked very well in the rain. As famous Dutch football legend Johan Cruijff always used to say in his Amsterdam dialect when analyzing a game, "Elk nadeel heb z'n voordeel". Translated: Every disadvantage has its advantage. I think the problem the Merc had during the weekend with heating up the tyres too much now worked in their advantage to better get the temperature in the tyres in the cooler conditions. It will be hot today in Budapest. The Ferraris will crush the Mercs! Don't know what was wrong with Danny but his use of the Softs in Q1 was already weird and then the bad timing in Q2.. oh my.
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Post by mikael on Jul 29, 2018 9:27:48 GMT
Could that pass even take place these days? Senna would have been screaming for "Blue flags", and Mansell probably would have been 1 to 1.5 sec behind to avoid cooking his tyres. I think if we had radio transmissions back then like we have now, Mansell would have been the king of all whiners! Yes, it's an interesting thought: how would the drivers of previous generations have behaved/sounded, if they too had been "on-line" all the time. In a sense, it's a bit hard/unfair to the present generation of drivers that they're exhibited the way they are when they're under huge stress. In a sense, again, there's an overflow of information in the current style of F1 transmission. Personally, the most pleasurable racing to watch is some of the old F1 transmissions from the 60's and and 70's, available now on YouTube, with the bare minimum of - or even zero - commentary, such that you can really hear the engines, the down-shifts, etc. Presently, whether the engines are noisy or not, it makes little difference, as you can hardly hear them anyway due to the typical waterfall-like commentary. But we have gotten used to information overflow, so of course, there's probably no turning back.
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Post by charleselan on Jul 29, 2018 10:00:39 GMT
The mystique of decades past has been lost with this "Information Overload". I still believe that these radio communications should be done away with, and if those who would like two championships then the manufacturers championship should be done with autonomous vehicles, then the tech boys could have it all their own way.
Going back to "what if's", I think that Senna would have been pretty vociferous when on the radio. According to some sources Ayrton's favourite catch phrase when things were not going his way was "it isn't fair". Then again can you imagine what the transmissions would have been from the Gulf Porsche 917's of Pedro and Seppi; Jo shouting "the b*st*rd has just tried to kill me".
With respect of the qualification yesterday I would have to say that pole was Kimi's but yet again Ferrari screwed up for him. He was outstanding throughout the wet sessions and looked like the Kimi of old, totally outclassed Sebastian and not by luck either. He still has the innate natural talent but maybe time has dulled some other aspects, but no yesterday. The first corner should be very interesting, Kimi says he has nothing to lose, so one has a feeling there may well be a coming together or two.
Great performance by both Toro Rosso boys also; Brendon Hartley really did well considering his fastest lap was done when the conditions were at their worst.
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Post by charleselan on Jul 29, 2018 10:01:57 GMT
Having said all this I have been fully entranced by the 2018 Tour de France. I have been watching more and more cycling over the past few years and it is good viewing made even better by fantastic scenery and a wonderful commentary with no hyperbole and hugely intelligent and knowledgeable interjections. What a shame that Coultard et al cannot be more intellectual like David Miller on the UK ITV4 TDF coverage.
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