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Post by Carl on Jun 18, 2018 20:29:07 GMT
Not entirely true, the obvious example being Nelson Piquet. Formula One has an allure similar to that of royalty, and in both realms not every one has been tested by fire. Only the very best can transition with relative ease, and they will fail without serious preparation. Yes of course you are right Carl. I meant now in modern times but my statement was still too black and white. But I do believe most F1 drivers would do well in WEC and Indycar given a serious chance. And there are certainly several Indycar drivers who would do well in F1 given the opportunity with serious testing. Rene,
There has always been a definable cultural division between Formula One and American series not only explained by the Atlantic Ocean. Formula One, despite a long history in America and races currently here and there around the world, remains essentially European, as it should, having begun and flourished there. It's always been extremely difficult to succeed in Formula One unless, like Jack Brabham and his acolyte Bruce McLaren, you move your entire operation to Europe. Like all race fans, I admire the ambition and success of both men.
One cultural difference is the relaxed political atmosphere of American racing relative to the intensity of politics in Formula One. Almost without exception, drivers, journalists and fans alike have commented on this. The competitive atmosphere is more relaxed in America and other countries. Like the historical plots and intrigue of royalty, a high level of subterfuge is expected in Formula One. There's brilliant rule bending and outrageous cheating in American racing. Smokey Yunick built a perfect 7/8ths scale stock car, but everyone admired his ingenuity and somehow a relaxed and friendly atmosphere prevails except on the track.
If I could choose only one race series, it would be Formula One as it was in the 1960s and 1970s. With so much emphasis now on corporate money, it's not the same, but love dies hard and I still love it.
Cheers, Carl
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Post by René on Jun 18, 2018 22:01:10 GMT
Yes of course you are right Carl. I meant now in modern times but my statement was still too black and white. But I do believe most F1 drivers would do well in WEC and Indycar given a serious chance. And there are certainly several Indycar drivers who would do well in F1 given the opportunity with serious testing. Rene, There has always been a definable cultural division between Formula One and American series not only explained by the Atlantic Ocean. Formula One, despite a long history in America and races currently here and there around the world, remains essentially European, as it should, having begun and flourished there. It's always been extremely difficult to succeed in Formula One unless, like Jack Brabham and his acolyte Bruce McLaren, you move your entire operation to Europe. Like all race fans, I admire the ambition and success of both men.
One cultural difference is the relaxed political atmosphere of American racing relative to the intensity of Formula One politics. Almost without exception, drivers, journalists and fans alike have commented on this. The competitive atmosphere is more relaxed in America and other countries. Like the historical intrigues and plots of royalty, a high level of subterfuge is expected in Formula One. There's brilliant rule bending and outrageous cheating in American racing. Smokey Yunick built a perfect 8/10ths scale stock car, but everyone admired his ingenuity and somehow a relaxed and friendly atmosphere prevails except on the track.
If I could choose only one race series, it would be Formula One as it was in the 1960s and 1970s. With so much emphasis now on corporate money, it's not the same, but love dies hard and I still love it. Cheers, Carl
Wonderful post Carl. I am aware of the cultural differences and I should have left Indycar out of my original statement. The last paragraph is spot on, exactly how I feel. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 3:01:12 GMT
Congrats to Toyota and Alonso. A fine job done and the race will be remebered as such; Toyota's and Fernando's first. But given the total lack of competition it will not go down in history as a classic Le Mans, far from it. In that way was The Hulk's victory a more memorable one. There was at least competition. It does show that any active F1 driver, be it a multiple winner or a solid midfielder can jump in at the highest level of endurance racing (and Indycar) and without too much preparation go for the win. Not entirely true, the obvious example being Nelson Piquet. Formula One has an allure similar to that of royalty, and in both realms not every one has been tested by fire. Only the very best can transition with relative ease, and they will fail without serious preparation. I would think it depends from several factors among which: - when they made the switch, at which point of their career, after F1 or during F1 (in their prime). Piquet did it after and in the last few years of his F1 career he was the shadow of his older self (particularly after having had an encounter of the third kind with the wall at the Tamburello) - for which team they raced in the US. Alonso last year had one of the best teams entirely at his disposal, including benefits like Mario's and Michael's wisdom on tap and Marco's car shake down. My view is that a top F1, any of them present or past, motivated and with adequate support, would crack Indy no problem. I may be wrong or we may disagree, Carl. Barbazza (!) came third on debut. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 3:10:17 GMT
Yes of course you are right Carl. I meant now in modern times but my statement was still too black and white. But I do believe most F1 drivers would do well in WEC and Indycar given a serious chance. And there are certainly several Indycar drivers who would do well in F1 given the opportunity with serious testing. Rene,
There has always been a definable cultural division between Formula One and American series not only explained by the Atlantic Ocean. Formula One, despite a long history in America and races currently here and there around the world, remains essentially European, as it should, having begun and flourished there. It's always been extremely difficult to succeed in Formula One unless, like Jack Brabham and his acolyte Bruce McLaren, you move your entire operation to Europe. Like all race fans, I admire the ambition and success of both men.
One cultural difference is the relaxed political atmosphere of American racing relative to the intensity of politics in Formula One. Almost without exception, drivers, journalists and fans alike have commented on this. The competitive atmosphere is more relaxed in America and other countries. Like the historical plots and intrigue of royalty, a high level of subterfuge is expected in Formula One. There's brilliant rule bending and outrageous cheating in American racing. Smokey Yunick built a perfect 7/8ths scale stock car, but everyone admired his ingenuity and somehow a relaxed and friendly atmosphere prevails except on the track.
If I could choose only one race series, it would be Formula One as it was in the 1960s and 1970s. With so much emphasis now on corporate money, it's not the same, but love dies hard and I still love it.
Cheers, Carl Great post indeed, Carl, much to agree on. F1 is indeed European, particularly as culture, that goes back to the GP racing between the world wars, and the only way to make it is to race in Europe from the start today, or they had to move early to Europe as Brabham, Phil Hill and Dan Gurney did. Only Villeneuve comes to my mind at the moment of someone who made the jump straight from outside Europe and still it took him the patience of Job from Enzo Ferrari to stick with him; I would bet nobody else would have had the same faith in the same circumstances. |
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Post by Carl on Jun 19, 2018 4:57:25 GMT
Not entirely true, the obvious example being Nelson Piquet. Formula One has an allure similar to that of royalty, and in both realms not every one has been tested by fire. Only the very best can transition with relative ease, and they will fail without serious preparation. I would think it depends from several factors among which: - when they made the switch, at which point of their career, after F1 or during F1 (in their prime). Piquet did it after and in the last few years of his F1 career he was the shadow of his older self (particularly after having had an encounter of the third kind with the wall at the Tamburello) - for which team they raced in the US. Alonso last year had one of the best teams entirely at his disposal, including benefits like Mario's and Michael's wisdom on tap and Marco's car shake down. My view is that a top F1, any of them present or past, motivated and with adequate support, would crack Indy no problem. I may be wrong or we may disagree, Carl. Barbazza (!) came third on debut. Nelson Piquet was indeed past his prime, but he'd been in the top ten in every race he finished the year before (once eleventh) for Benetton, and won in Montreal. He was usually over confident, which probably explains his rookie mistake at Indianapolis.
I remember Fabrizio Barbazza in Indy cars and had a good impression, but only eight cars finished that year at Indy and third was not impressive. He was very slow late in the race and was threatened with the black flag when he ignored the blue to let the leader past.
We agree, and I wrote earlier, that the very best in F1 would transition with relative ease. Formula One has image, glamour and money that drivers can't find anywhere else and it attracts the best.
But Indy is a damn tough race to crack even for the very best. Alonso was awesome last year, about the same as Jim Clark was every year, and that ain't bad.
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Post by charleselan on Jun 23, 2018 12:12:46 GMT
Some great and interesting comments about Le Mans 2018. Personally I could not give a jot about Alonso winning, what did please me was the win for Toyota even if it appeared be a rather hollow one. Toyota have been trying to win for decades and had the pain of 2016 when they really deserved the win. Also the win was timely for Nakajima who was at the wheel in 2016 when the car stopped so close to the finish.
Thanks to the UK FreeView/Sat channel Quest there was some good live coverage of the race which was much appreciated. The GT classes offering some sensational racing, along with some very dubious tactics employed by Porsche driver Fred Makoweicki against a very enraged Sebastien Bourdais.
With regard to the "Triple Crown", I think Lucio has summed it up pretty accurately; an ageing F1 driver who has shot his bolt in that category who is trying to self promote in other arena's.
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Post by Carl on Jun 23, 2018 16:04:16 GMT
For the very first time here, the entire 24 Hours race was broadcast live in a collaborative effort by a network called, I believe, Eurosport and the Motor Trend and Velocity channels. It was refreshing to be able to choose when to watch.
The announcers spent too much time responding to silly tweeted questions from obvious twits, but were very good overall, although their description of the flagrant blocking by Porsche (the entire team were seen smirking) of Sebastian Bourdais as "a bit naughty" was itself more than a bit absurd.
I agree with John Charles that the victory was well deserved. Toyota were impressive enough to have won even if other ugly P1 sisters had challenged them.
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Post by mikael on Feb 21, 2019 6:15:48 GMT
An interesting brochure: 1/3
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Post by mikael on Feb 21, 2019 6:17:11 GMT
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Post by mikael on Feb 21, 2019 6:17:45 GMT
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Post by mikael on Feb 21, 2019 6:18:36 GMT
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Post by mikael on Feb 21, 2019 6:19:08 GMT
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Post by mikael on Feb 21, 2019 6:19:35 GMT
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Post by René on Feb 21, 2019 16:05:04 GMT
Great stuff Mikael. Beautiful brochures of two beautiful Porsches. The 917 in its first iteration looked quite different to the later version which is so well known. But a beautiful car nonetheless.   25 917’s lined up at Zuffenhausen awaiting the CSI chassis count for homologation into Group 5…22 April 1969. (Porsche AG)
The 904 Carrera GTS is also a great looking little car.  Ferdinand Alexander Porsche III poses with one of the first 904 Carrera GTS models in 1964. (Porsche Archive photo) |
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Post by René on Jun 15, 2019 10:06:57 GMT
2019 Le Mans 24hAt 15.00h this afternoon it's the start of the 87th Le Mans 24h! The series may not be in the best shape at the moment but it's still the long distance race of the year. Toyota is favourite but they are also very good at losing in the most unlikely manner so who knows what will happen this time. The racing in LMP2 and GTE classes will be close as always. Bring it on!   
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