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Post by robmarsh on Jun 17, 2018 10:56:45 GMT
I agree Lucio its a bit meaningless if he wins. Hill/ Pescarolo won in 1972 against meagre competition compzred to 1971 and 1973 though they only shared the driving between the two of them and not 4 like now.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2018 13:20:59 GMT
Obviously it's not Alonso's fault if there are no competitors, he can only race in the circumstances he finds.
My point is that in the wider context of his career or motorsport in general, this win has a relative value, meaning quite low.
Top drivers are measured in F1 today, much more than thirty of forty years ago, and his alleged "quest" of a doubtful "triple crown" - today rather meaningless exactly because the top echelon competes only in F1 (we might agree it's an unfortunate situation, but it's the way it is) and for which he conveniently had no interest until he had a competitive car - is pathetic.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2018 16:10:46 GMT
To be fair to Nando, I have just read that the #8 driven by Alonso during the night regained two minutes to the #7 which was ahead and overtook it just after 6am. All right, he earned his dough, we knew he is good. That is the kind of racing, relentless pursuit, where he excels. The Bandit.
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Post by Jamie on Jun 17, 2018 16:39:36 GMT
I’m pleased for Alonso and even more so for his co-drivers after the heartbreak of 2016.
Alonso put in some great work during his night stints and proved his calibre for sure, meagre opposition but they got the job done and he now has two parts of his triple crown. I think Alonso realises that F1 has gone for him now and see’s the triple crown as a way to maintain his motivation and interest. If that is the case, and he has the motivation to go out there and prove himself in other forms of motorsport, I say more power to him....it provides a bit of interest over and above the sterile world of F1.
I hope he completes a full IndyCar season next year personally, and I’d hope for him to win the 500 if he did so, it would be a good story at least 👍
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Post by chrisb on Jun 17, 2018 20:45:43 GMT
i'm quite torn about the whole triple crown thing, Graham did an unbelievable job in 62 [and tragically again in 68] - and whether or not he won in 66 isn't up for debate at the moment, the point was he was there, and again in 72, Alonso, deserved his WDC as far as i can tell and he drove well at Le Mans and at Indy, but then I wouldn't want Graham's record equalled, but equally Nando is something special to want to do this, and that i really respect, hence conflict
Jamie et al, have you seen the proposed new rules? wondering what your thoughts were?
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Post by Carl on Jun 17, 2018 21:46:10 GMT
Jamie, A great photograph that surprised me. I would have thought the 917 was larger than the 914.
Cheers, Carl
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Post by Carl on Jun 17, 2018 22:07:27 GMT
The ultimate incarnation of the Group C genre......right at the top of my dream garage wish list 😁 And have it as a street legal version Jamie, like the 917 Mikael posted!  Rene, Mikael and Jamie,
Dean Martin's son, Dino, lead singer with Dino, Desi and Billy, a bad boy band that also included the son of Desi Arnaz and one token nobody, had a converted Ferrari 330 P3 before he was twenty. I remember seeing it at a Hollywood Bowl fundraiser car show. He wasn't there so I had no chance to propose a trade for my Sprite Mk lll.
Although having a famous father, he was well-adjusted and followed his love of flying into the California Air National Guard. Sadly, he was killed on a training flight when his F4-U Phantom fighter jet mysteriously flew into a mountain in heavy fog.
-Carl
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2018 23:07:03 GMT
I love these curveballs Carl serves us. Dino Crocetti called his children Dina and Dino? The guy had a crack for names... |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2018 23:10:20 GMT
I don’t know. Yes, respect, of course. It all sounds like a tick box exercise to me, with no genuine interest in the races – Le Mans now, Indy next – only a self-aggrandising exercise.
He can’t crack it in F1 anymore and finds other objectives to achieve. Fine. But that’s it. He wasn’t racing in endurance or Indy when he had top billing in F1. It didn’t even cross his mind. This triple crown business is as artificial as it comes, only to sell useless motorsport magazines. Hamilton or Senna or Schumacher and few others have never tried to win the three things, and I would say they would have walked it – all of them. Fittipaldi pretty much walked it in Indy, when repeat wins at Indy still meant something.
Alonso won Le Mans in a race of two cars, with the best crew. It would have been news had he not won. Does that make him a Le Mans legend? No. He needs to show he has genuine interest in the race, go back the next five-plus years and win some more before being considered that. He has won it once like hundreds before him, most of them less skilled than him and struggling for the win, and as such more deserving to my eyes. He was served an open goal.
Indy. Again, Indy these days has a relative value, the way I see it. If he wins there next year it won’t be in Clark or Graham territory, not even close. These days it’s a spec series, people race to get to the last two pit stops unscathed and close to the lead and then play the roulette. Like wise to Le Mans, he would need to win it few times, like Castroneves and Franchitti did in recent times, to be taken seriously. Else it would look more like Cheever or Sato - an F1 reject. Which probably he is, at this point.
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Post by Carl on Jun 18, 2018 0:32:20 GMT
I love these curveballs Carl serves us. Dino Crocetti called his children Dina and Dino? The guy had a crack for names... My curve, clocked at 96 mph, was almost impossible to hit except by accident, as twice happened when the batter was falling down. I'm proud to hear it still resonates...
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Post by René on Jun 18, 2018 7:30:19 GMT
Congrats to Toyota and Alonso. A fine job done and the race will be remebered as such; Toyota's and Fernando's first. But given the total lack of competition it will not go down in history as a classic Le Mans, far from it. In that way was The Hulk's victory a more memorable one. There was at least competition.
It does show that any active F1 driver, be it a multiple winner or a solid midfielder can jump in at the highest level of endurance racing (and Indycar) and without too much preparation go for the win.
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Post by René on Jun 18, 2018 7:33:29 GMT
Jamie, A great photograph that surprised me. I would have thought the 917 was larger than the 914.
Cheers, Carl
Carl, the 917 is definitely longer and wider than the 914 but it's quite a bit lower. If you would see it from the top ithe 917 would be larger. Still not a large car which this picture shows very clear. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 12:06:46 GMT
I have read in several places about Davidson side-lined to make place for Alonso. If that is true it gives me pause for thought.
This quote is not mine, but it summarize what I have been reading:
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Post by Carl on Jun 18, 2018 15:48:51 GMT
Congrats to Toyota and Alonso. A fine job done and the race will be remebered as such; Toyota's and Fernando's first. But given the total lack of competition it will not go down in history as a classic Le Mans, far from it. In that way was The Hulk's victory a more memorable one. There was at least competition. It does show that any active F1 driver, be it a multiple winner or a solid midfielder can jump in at the highest level of endurance racing (and Indycar) and without too much preparation go for the win. Not entirely true, the obvious example being Nelson Piquet. Formula One has an allure similar to that of royalty, and in both realms not every one has been tested by fire. Only the very best can transition with relative ease, and they will fail without serious preparation. |
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Post by René on Jun 18, 2018 18:45:44 GMT
Congrats to Toyota and Alonso. A fine job done and the race will be remebered as such; Toyota's and Fernando's first. But given the total lack of competition it will not go down in history as a classic Le Mans, far from it. In that way was The Hulk's victory a more memorable one. There was at least competition. It does show that any active F1 driver, be it a multiple winner or a solid midfielder can jump in at the highest level of endurance racing (and Indycar) and without too much preparation go for the win. Not entirely true, the obvious example being Nelson Piquet. Formula One has an allure similar to that of royalty, and in both realms not every one has been tested by fire. Only the very best can transition with relative ease, and they will fail without serious preparation. Yes of course you are right Carl. I meant now in modern times but my statement was still too black and white. But I do believe most F1 drivers would do well in WEC and Indycar given a serious chance. And there are certainly several Indycar drivers who would do well in F1 given the opportunity with serious testing. |
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