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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2018 15:42:29 GMT
Perhaps - perhaps - Leclerc will be the next megastar, but to me Ferrari needs racers, not second drivers - either at end or beginning of their careers - people who seriously push each other. And besides, since when Ferrari takes a driver to groom him as the next number one, they either can't afford it as a mega-brand not taking risks or have that imagination anymore, not to mention the sport is very different wrt forty years ago.
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Post by René on Jun 11, 2018 15:48:20 GMT
We'll see but still, if they would give Lecrec the seat that would be a very bold move for contemporary Ferrari. I personally would applaud it. The way Kimi faded again is really not acceptable anymore.
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Post by Carl on Jun 11, 2018 16:15:13 GMT
It was clear to most that Lance Stroll caused the serious collision with Brendan Hartley by drifting left, with the glaring exception of idiotic primary announcer David Croft, who declared Stroll to be "an innocent bystander". At least he wasn't allowed to wave the checkered flag.
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Post by Carl on Jun 13, 2018 1:00:49 GMT
One o'clock in the morning, switched on Fox Asia and they are live from Montreal! Must have all my world times upside down. Hang on a moment... they are talking about Button, Kobayashi in second place... it's a replay. Lucio, Do you plan to attend the MotoGP at Sepang in November?
-Carl
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2018 11:18:26 GMT
I saw the billboards when I landed Carl, along the highway to downtown and thought I might. Don't know yet.
The circuit is just beside the airport.
Cheers, Lucio
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2018 12:05:22 GMT
I understand McLaren was probably the slowest car in Canada. Reading and listening to the British media in the last few years, they allegedly had one of the best chassis on the grid. Nobody now is owning up to that, of course. Honda's performance was a very convenient excuse for their collective delusions.
Same for those who hailed Zak-whats-his-name as a commercial genius for supporting Alonso at Indy - on a Dallara… - as it would have been commercially beneficial to the F1 team. They still don't have a main title sponsor. I heard few weeks ago McLaren (that genius of Zak, obviously) are even thinking to field their own team in IndyCar. Of Dallaras, it would be all too easy to presume.
It's like shooting on the Red Cross.
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Post by Carl on Jun 13, 2018 15:43:02 GMT
I saw the billboards when I landed Carl, along the highway to downtown and thought I might. Don't know yet. The circuit is just beside the airport. Cheers, Lucio Lucio,
A nice fringe benefit, for sure!
Cheers, Carl
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Post by Carl on Jun 13, 2018 16:02:35 GMT
I understand McLaren was probably the slowest car in Canada. Reading and listening to the British media in the last few years, they allegedly had one of the best chassis on the grid. Nobody now is owning up to that, of course. Honda's performance was a very convenient excuse for their collective delusions. Same for those who hailed Zak-whats-his-name as a commercial genius for supporting Alonso at Indy - on a Dallara… - as it would have been commercially beneficial to the F1 team. They still don't have a main title sponsor. I heard few weeks ago McLaren (that genius of Zak, obviously) are even thinking to field their own team in IndyCar. Of Dallaras, it would be all too easy to presume. It's like shooting on the Red Cross. The decline of McLaren is amazing. His last name is Brown, as in mud. The delusions enveloping that once great team, as potential main title sponsor Alice Liddell might say, are curiouser and curiouser.
I know the inner workings of the American Red Cross, where innovation is toxic and stupidity admired and whose operational inspiration may have been The Mad Hatter. Its Board of Directors could only be improved by severe bombardment.
Cheers, Carl
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2018 16:19:49 GMT
That is an Italian saying Carl, which means it's so easy, in this case criticizing McLaren, like shooting on someone who is disarmed. There is no point or satisfaction.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2018 16:38:37 GMT
I haven't considered McLaren's plight from all corners, I am not really that knowledgeable, even if they are effectively next door, but while Dennis took them up, in the end he lost touch with the way current racing was developing, can't say for certain, but that was the impression. Brown has made his millions, but succeeding in F1 is a different challenge altogether and he doesn't look like the brightest nut in the box or particularly equipped, in that sense.
Whitmarsh seemed quite a likeable and probably capable individual. Perhaps with him staying things might have turned out differently, but he was only an employee - Dennis a co-owner - and his success ultimately could also have depended on how much enlightened the owners would have been, how much leeway he would have been afforded. (let's not forget Dennis was in permanent war against Whitmarsh)
Easy to criticize Ferrari, as they have been doing all these decades in the UK, they still do, but perhaps the brightest people are finally realizing what it means to develop and keep a marque at the forefront, not just relevant, of the sport AND a commercial success too. They are effectively the exception, because the rule seems to be they will all eventually disappear in due course. As I unfortunately expect Williams and McLaren will. If they stay on their own.
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Post by Carl on Jun 13, 2018 20:01:21 GMT
Lucio,
I totally agree about management failures at McLaren. Martin Whitmarsh was too sensible for Ron Dennis' expanding egomania. I had an amazing encounter a couple of years ago on Motorsport.com when I criticized Dennis, along with Ecclestone, for the decline of status in Formula One. What I can only describe as a rabid attack specialist soon replied with extreme venom. I was an "Amerikan" and not entitled to have a view, in this idiot's lower intestinal opinion. I believe it was Ron Dennis. We went back and forth, I responded with equal contempt, and he/she/it soon left.
A point about Dallara: Yes, IndyCar is considerably less interesting now that the chassis are spec/Dallara, probably a consequence of the financial trauma caused by the attempt of another reckless ego, that of Tony George, to seize the throne. Before the uncivil war between CART and IRL, when most teams had their own chassis designs, the series held much greater interest that longtime fans of Champ Car and CART still miss. Nonetheless, current IndyCar is a big step ahead of Formula One in recognizing the drawbacks of extreme downforce. Until F1 can do the same, IndyCar provides closer and better racing. If you can, enjoy the IndyCar race June 24 at one of the great road courses anywhere, Road America! Cheers, Carl
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Post by René on Jun 13, 2018 20:14:00 GMT
The reality is that Ferrari has adjusted way better to a changing world and a new Formula 1 than McLaren and Williams have.
The McLaren and Williams situations are very different but both are not looking good. I like the fact Claire Williams has taken over from Frank, a real family business. But Frank is a racer, something that seems missing now. And Paddy Lowe is clearly not the man to give the team direction. If he was, we would have seen it by now. Competing with the big three is maybe too much for Williams but they really should be at Force Indias level. Force India show it is possible to be the 4th/5th team with relatively modest recources. And they understand you need good drivers. It's almost unbelievable Williams has the drivers they have. Can you imagine Stroll developing a car? Giving the right input to the engineers? It's hopeless.
As for McLaren, I hardly recognize the team anymore. Brown and Bouiller are no McLaren men. Martin Witmarsh was. There's no vision, no ideas and the worst thing is they have been fooling themselves for years with their claims of having the best chassis. It's pathetic and sad. For me as Ferrari fan, McLaren always was the natural enemy, still I want them to be strong. But it began way earlier when Dennis was still there. Ron lost touch with reality and now Zak is just a person with too much money enjoying his hobby. But if he had really heart for the team he would take Whitmarsh back and take a step back himself.
I really hope both Williams and McLaren find their way back but I am not optimistic.
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Post by chrisb on Jun 13, 2018 20:17:09 GMT
you know fortunately I was away when C4 showed the highlights - I did read Mark H's report which I enjoyed until i read the subsequent comments which made me vomit with contenpt for the sheer stupidity, how many times does Mark have to answer the same question before these so called keyboard 'people' with such insight that they know more than a respected jourmalist who is there and has been there! arghh
I do think Martin Whitmarsh is what is needed at McLaren because Mssrs Brown and Boulier are not what is needed
Towards the beginnings of Mr Georges destrcution of Indycar / CART we had - how many difefrent chassis? 2 or 3? but it worked - well for me anyway
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Post by Carl on Jun 13, 2018 20:41:44 GMT
you know fortunately I was away when C4 showed the highlights - I did read Mark H's report which I enjoyed until i read the subsequent comments which made me vomit with contenpt for the sheer stupidity, how many times does Mark have to answer the same question before these so called keyboard 'people' with such insight that they know more than a respected jourmalist who is there and has been there! arghh I do think Martin Whitmarsh is what is needed at McLaren because Mssrs Brown and Boulier are not what is needed Towards the beginnings of Mr Georges destrcution of Indycar / CART we had - how many difefrent chassis? 2 or 3? but it worked - well for me anyway Welcome back, Chris! Your time in Scotland has made you even more feisty but your point is well taken.
Over time, fewer and fewer proprietary designs appeared on Indy grids. In the 1940s and subsequent decades, having your own chassis was seen as smart racing and the can-do spirit prevailed. Over time, well-funded (and better-founded in engineering) designs from McLaren, Lola, March and Reynard came to dominate. In 1982 there were eight different chassis; in 1992 there were four.
Nonetheless, IndyCar is ahead of Formula One this year in providing good and close racing. Enjoy the June 24 race at one of the great road courses, Road America! Passing is allowed!
Cheers, Carl
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Post by robmarsh on Jun 14, 2018 6:53:25 GMT
I agree with the comments from you all re Mclaren and Williams and the road to nowhere they are currently on. Personally I think Ron Dennis sowed the seeds of destruction for McLaren because, like Eccleston, his ego was to big to realise he had lost touch with the business.
Williams have a problem with their top management. Claire does not seem to have the ability to pull a team together like her father and having seen Paddy Lowe in interviews I can't see where he gets his reputation from. He doesn't strike me as being in the same class as Martin Whitmarsh at all and could be another "legend in his own mind".
I also think that both McLaren and Williams suffer from mission creep with their other interests in the automotive industry . They need to separate the racing teams from the rest of the business so they can focus properly. I also think both teams are too top heavy in their management structures, especially for the current levels of performance.
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