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Post by robmarsh on Oct 13, 2024 17:16:33 GMT
Also Ferrari are the only manufacturer apart from BRM back in the day, that manufacture the whole car in house. Even then BRM only ran a Formula 1 team and a Can Am car for a few races in 1970. At that time Ferrari were competing in Formula 1 and World Sportscars.
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Post by Carl on Oct 13, 2024 18:14:47 GMT
Also Ferrari are the only manufacturer apart from BRM back in the day, that manufacture the whole car in house. Even then BRM only ran a Formula 1 team and a Can Am car for a few races in 1970. At that time Ferrari were competing in Formula 1 and World Sportscars.
Designed by Tony Southgate, the BRM 154 was very fast when driven by Pedro Rodriguez, a strong third at Riverside in 1970 behind Denny Hulme's M8D and Jackie Oliver in Peter Bryant's brilliant and innovative Ti-22. People admired the dominance of Team McLaren, but wanted someone to challenge them.
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Post by Carl on Oct 13, 2024 22:01:55 GMT
René, Your pride in Ferrari is totally justified. However, no top-level team is immune to corporate control, the black plague of motorsport. When egos expand to reflect half a billion budgets, effort is sacrified to pride and wasted where it's most important. Ferrari is unique because its essence can still be traced to the unique genius of its founder. To be successful as an industrialist a century ago in the chaotic politics of Italy, to afford to race, his one great love, Enzo Ferrari had to be a master of intrigue. People around the world share pride in his accomplishments. Honesty doesn't overflow from corporate boardrooms and I don't think great leadership untainted by ego has existed in motorsport since Bruce McLaren. Not all billionaires are the same. Some are honest, but others lie when they say "good morning"
Cheers, Carl  |
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Post by chrisb on Oct 14, 2024 7:47:41 GMT
I was so fortunate to have seen the P34 in 76 and 77 and I have wonderful memories of Jody at Brands in 76 with those little windows, and it really was incredible to watch. I did like the 008 and felt Patrick was well suited to its characteristics.
Again I was very fortunate to have had some connections with Toyota Team Europe in the early 80's and whilst extremely hard-working and professional there seemed to be a more relaxed atmosphere by comparison to F1 teams. The sense I got was that Toyota thought all they had to do was turn up and they would win.
Rene, despite my comments I have had nothing but respect for Ferrari and the trail it blazes, although in the 50's it seemed much more common to do the whole hog, i.e. Maserati, Aston Martin but no one did it for as long and successfully and clearly to have carried that philosophy for so long is one incredible achievement.
I was intrigued by your comment about a typical British team, which made me think - is that really McLaren? in the 50's it would have been Vanwall, the 60's Lotus and BRM, 70's and 80's Lotus then Williams, and now? not sure.
I had the pleasure of seeing and listening to the BRM Can-Am car at Shellsey Walsh 2 years ago, albeit in 40 degrees heat, and it is beautiful, One Can-Am car I would dearly love to see in the Lotus one. that looked gorgeous
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Post by René on Oct 14, 2024 16:13:55 GMT
I don’t mind criticism of Ferrari (why would I?  ). They’ve made many mistakes over the years and lost races and even championships because of wrong decisions or mismanagement. But the fact that they are usually there or thereabouts, year in year out, is something worth realizing. When looking at big money projects like Toyota, BMW, Aston Martin, you name it, it shows how difficult it is to be competitive in F1. Ferrari is a racing company by heart, producing exclusive sports cars to keep the company profitable. But they are racing people. Just look at their comeback after 50 years in the World Sportscar Championship. They win Le Mans at the first attempt and do it again the next year. Simply amazing. Next year, they’ll be champion in F1 again.   |
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Post by Carl on Oct 14, 2024 17:52:26 GMT
I don’t mind criticism of Ferrari (why would I? ). They’ve made many mistakes over the years and lost races and even championships because of wrong decisions or mismanagement. But the fact that they are usually there or thereabouts, year in year out, is something worth realizing. When looking at big money projects like Toyota, BMW, Aston Martin, you name it, it shows how difficult it is to be competitive in F1. Ferrari is a racing company by heart, producing exclusive sports cars to keep the company profitable. But they are racing people. Just look at their comeback after 50 years in the World Sportscar Championship. They win Le Mans at the first attempt and do it again the next year. Simply amazing. Next year, they’ll be champion in F1 again. When my friend and I made a side trip to Monza in 1970 to buy Grand Prix tickets, my first impression was how charming a place it was. When we walked to the great park and reserved seats, I was overwhelmed to be in the heart of so historic a racetrack. We wandered around the infield and had lunch in the restaurant to a soundtrack of Formula Fords being tested. I glanced at everyone who came in, but the magic went no further. I know I would have approached Enzo Ferrari, if only to genuflect. Proud, vain and contentious, he was a living legend for four decades.
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Post by Carl on Oct 14, 2024 19:39:01 GMT
I was so fortunate to have seen the P34 in 76 and 77 and I have wonderful memories of Jody at Brands in 76 with those little windows, and it really was incredible to watch. I did like the 008 and felt Patrick was well suited to its characteristics. Again I was very fortunate to have had some connections with Toyota Team Europe in the early 80's and whilst extremely hard-working and professional there seemed to be a more relaxed atmosphere by comparison to F1 teams. The sense I got was that Toyota thought all they had to do was turn up and they would win. Rene, despite my comments I have had nothing but respect for Ferrari and the trail it blazes, although in the 50's it seemed much more common to do the whole hog, i.e. Maserati, Aston Martin but no one did it for as long and successfully and clearly to have carried that philosophy for so long is one incredible achievement. I was intrigued by your comment about a typical British team, which made me think - is that really McLaren? in the 50's it would have been Vanwall, the 60's Lotus and BRM, 70's and 80's Lotus then Williams, and now? not sure. I had the pleasure of seeing and listening to the BRM Can-Am car at Shellsey Walsh 2 years ago, albeit in 40 degrees heat, and it is beautiful, One Can-Am car I would dearly love to see in the Lotus one. that looked gorgeous Chris, When you refer to Lotus in Can-Am, do you mean the stillborn Lotus 66, a beautiful sports racer looking very much like the McLaren M8D and M8F? I would love to have seen Colin Chapman at his best, but I did see Jim Clark race in the predecessor series to the Can-Am, the United States Road Racing Championship. Although beautiful, neither the Lotus 30 or 40 were as fast as they needed to be. Despite that handicap, Clark was wonderfully impressive in the Lotus 40 in 1965 at Riverside, finishing a strong 2nd to the much faster Chaparral 2A of Hap Sharp. Because he had also won the Indy 500 and a second World Drivers' Championship that year, the ovation he received on the slowdown lap was loudest of all. Cheers, Carl Helmets tell the tale: Graham Hill inside of Hap Sharp and Bob Bondurant / Jim Clark and Ritchie Ginther in the next row
A dip sent everyone into slight oversteer exiting Turn 6 
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Post by chrisb on Oct 15, 2024 9:20:28 GMT
I wish you luck next year René- it would be good for motor racing if it happened.
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Post by chrisb on Oct 15, 2024 9:24:59 GMT
Carl, yes I do mean the gorgeous 66, oh just imagine Jimmy in that my word that would have been so spectacular and would have threatened every other team.
I don't think I saw Jimmy in the 30 or 40 I will have to check as not sure what else he drove in the 65 Race of Champions - I was always puzzled why Chapman produced such a successful car in the 23 and a stinker in the 30, which is did see race in a historic race at Donington one year. and it was awful
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Post by Carl on Oct 15, 2024 19:24:35 GMT
Carl, yes I do mean the gorgeous 66, oh just imagine Jimmy in that my word that would have been so spectacular and would have threatened every other team. I don't think I saw Jimmy in the 30 or 40 I will have to check as not sure what else he drove in the 65 Race of Champions - I was always puzzled why Chapman produced such a successful car in the 23 and a stinker in the 30, which is did see race in a historic race at Donington one year. and it was awful Chris, One theory is that Chapman was out of his element with big American engines, which would explain why the Lotus 30 and 40 never came right [Maurice Philippe and Keith Duckworth may have sent Chapman on vacation to Brighton Beach during Lotus 49 development.] Chapman was also obligated to use Ford engines, which never won a Can-Am race. He should have apologized to Henry Ford ll and delegated that concept to someone more attuned to Chevrolet V8s and trumpet intakes. Large corporate sponsors often think they know best and the occasional ignorant disregard for the sport is unconscionable. Another example is Goodyear ordering Dan Gurney to concentrate on Indianapolis after having come so close to success in Formula One. |
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Post by Carl on Oct 17, 2024 18:18:01 GMT
René, A great banner image of Dan Gurney, I believe in 1967 at Monaco, the exhausts on the early Eagle more secure than the driver!
That was the year he came closest to his well deserved dream of dual championships. He had fastest lap and victory in Belgium and fastest lap in Germany. He was on the podium at both races he finished, but his Eagle lacked reliability. Infernal combustion defeated his effort for an unprecedented achievement which might have been his with a Ron Tauranac designed engine.
Gurney believed in driver comfort 
A race he should have won 
Goodyear yanked the F1 dream away  |
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Post by René on Oct 17, 2024 20:07:22 GMT
Well spotted Carl! Indeed the 1967 Monaco Grand Prix. Dan unfortunately retired on lap 5. I love the chrome exhaust pipes! |
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Post by mikael on Oct 19, 2024 7:59:35 GMT
A great banner image of Dan Gurney, I believe in 1967 at Monaco, the exhausts on the early Eagle more secure than the driver!
Yes, looking at Dan Gurney without safety belts in this car, it's hard to understand that the "safety philosophy" of, "in case of an accident, it's better to be thrown clear than to be trapped in the car" was still prevailing in 1967, with these low-slung cars where the driver had to squeeze himself in. Somehow, it made sense with the very open cockpits of the early 1950; but not with a car like this.
Of course, Graham Hill was actually "thrown clear" by his big accident at Watkins Glen in 1969; but by most accidents, the driver was trapped in the car and often banged his head badly into the steering wheel (e.g., Stirling Moss, Goodwood 1962; Jochen Rindt, Montjuic 1969).
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Post by mikael on Oct 19, 2024 15:54:15 GMT
Ref.: Dan Gurney, Monaco 1967: Another beautiful photo from the same race. It was posted before in another thread; but it seems to have disappeared.
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Post by Carl on Oct 19, 2024 19:08:25 GMT
Ref.: Dan Gurney, Monaco 1967: Another beautiful photo from the same race. It was posted before in another thread; but it seems to have disappeared.
The photograph of Dan Gurney and a Goodyear technician pushing his car to the grid at Monaco in 1967 is by Pete Lyons, whose father Ozzie passed on a love for racing and talent for writing and photography. |
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). They’ve made many mistakes over the years and lost races and even championships because of wrong decisions or mismanagement. But the fact that they are usually there or thereabouts, year in year out, is something worth realizing. When looking at big money projects like Toyota, BMW, Aston Martin, you name it, it shows how difficult it is to be competitive in F1. 
