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[chrisb]

polite disagreements are after all healthy for discussions- 

Carl, I could never warm to Ron, and often wondered what Bruce would have made of him, a perfectionist no doubt and from what I have read Ron could be both extremely supportive and also extremely brutal in his dealings with mortals. He was, however, whilst exceptionally successful I do think he worked best when in tandem with Martin Whitmarsh. His response to your comments was shocking as well as puzzling. Sadly I think irony is something Ron is incapable of 

[René]

Sept 14, 2024 8:17:46 GMT mikael said:

... but of course, the "stern-part" of the Brabham BT-48 was extremely long - maybe even longer than that of the contemporary cars ...

How far forward the drivers were sitting in that generation of cars. Ridiculous and insanely dangerous… but it looked cool. 😎 

[robmarsh]

Sept 14, 2024 10:38:15 GMT chrisb said:

polite disagreements are after all healthy for discussions- 

Carl, I could never warm to Ron, and often wondered what Bruce would have made of him, a perfectionist no doubt and from what I have read Ron could be both extremely supportive and also extremely brutal in his dealings with mortals. He was, however, whilst exceptionally successful I do think he worked best when in tandem with Martin Whitmarsh. His response to your comments was shocking as well as puzzling. Sadly I think irony is something Ron is incapable of 

After all Ron puts his trousers on one leg at a time just like the rest of us.

[robmarsh]

1970 French GP at Clermont-Ferrand.

[Carl]

Sept 19, 2024 18:34:12 GMT robmarsh said:

1970 French GP at Clermont-Ferrand.

My first thought was Brands Hatch. Well done, Rob!

A wonderful photograph of Jochen Rindt chased by Henri Pescarolo at Clermont-Ferrand, just one of the many triumphs for Lotus, Colin Chapman and Rindt enroute to a tragically posthumous world championship.

In a sad way reminiscent of the 1968 World Championship that almost certainly would have been Jim Clark's, with Graham Hill retaining the title for Team Lotus

[mikael]

A very interesting article about Jochen Rindt:

www.goodwood.com/grr/f1/jochen-rindt--greatness-cut-short--thank-frankel-its-friday/

The equally interesting photo below is borrowed from the article.

Monza, 9 September 1970.

Another great photo from that "checkered" year.

[Carl]

An excellent article from a fine writer. I was aware of four of the five circumstantial dominoes that combined into a fatal accident. I think Rindt announced his plan to retire to please Nina. He was too invested in the sport at which he excelled to be able to follow through on the promise.

He and Jackie Stewart were the cream of the crop in 1969 and 1970, with Jacky Ickx close behind.

[chrisb]

I found Jochen a very interesting person, with his childhood tragedies and how he overcame such obstacles, and his determination to succeed, I don't know how he got on with Bruce in those years I do know he was close to both Jimmy and Jackie and fate robbed him of his greatest moment, sometimes this sport of ours is a cruel mistress and when you look at the exhibitions and other things Jochen was interested in organising you could see a real future for him, along with his manager and mate they could have transformed F1 to something far more positive, as I couldn't see BCE controlling Jochen. 

[mikael]

Ref: The Tyrrell 008:

After the spectacular P34, I remember being very disappointed - at the time - to see Tyrrell going back to a traditional 4-wheeler

Travelers checks (/traveller's cheques) ... different times, bygone days ...

[René]

Me too! The 008 was a rather conventional car compared to the P34, but the 6-wheeler project was doomed to failure. I do remember Patrick Depailler's victory in Monaco.





And this is also nice. Jackie Stewart in the Tyrrell 008 at Brands Hatch. He regularly tested Ken's cars and sometimes other cars at that time. Wouldn't it be nice if Vettel or Raikkonen would do that too and then tell their findings. Oh well, different times.

[mikael]

Interesting to compare the sponsorship of Tyrrell (First National City Bank of New York) of those olden times with that of RB-Visa of the present time: both are sponsored by a financial company, but rather than promoting the company as such, they both promote a very specific product: in the 1970's, traveller's cheques, and in the 2020's, a mobile phone cash app ...

[René]

Nice comparison. The Tyrrell looks actually quite streamlined from the side.

[René]

Since no one is motivated to comment on the banner photo, I will.   Jarno Trulli in the Toyota TF108 during the 2008 Italian Grand Prix at Monza. I chose that photo of course because of Toyota's (partial) return to F1.

It has always fascinated me how a manufacturer like Toyota has never really managed to convince on the race track. In the World Rally Championship they were certainly good and in the WEC they have now become champions a few times. But most titles have been won without real competition. And in Formula 1, despite enormous investments, it just didn't work out. A handful of podium finishes and zero victories… just not enough. 

[mikael]

There is an interesting article on "The Race", assessing how it could go so badly for Toyota as it did, despite the massive investment. In short, it seems that they wanted to do anything differently, and then prove that that would work - that anything done "the Toyota way" would work. Their great success with their road cars, as well as with their other motorsport ventures, had given them the conviction that they could, basically, "walk on water".

It's interesting to be reminded, in this light, how good anyone doing well in F1 actually is (whether it's a team or a driver). The level is way above any other motorsport category, to say the very least.

Link to the article:

www.the-race.com/formula-1/why-toyota-first-f1-venture-failed-so-badly/

As to the banner image, I was about to write, also, that, in spite of the fact that the present F1 cars have grown a tad too big, they do, in fact (as I see it, at least), look better than the cars of the late 00's, with their myriad of winglets and vortex generators, placed "ad hoc" anywhere on the car body. It was a good thing that these have been "chopped off"! :-)

[René]

It’s a good article that shows once again that a racing team should be run by racing people without interference from the boardroom. 



Your comment on the level of F1 is also significant. Not only to new teams but also regarding the oldest team of them all; Ferrari. Ferrari is often criticized for not having won a championship for such a long time and doing things the ‘Italian way‘ which would lead to chaos and mistakes. But people forget that Ferrari has always, with the exception of a handful of seasons, been at the forefront of Formula One. They have won races in almost every season they competed in since 1950, again with the exception of a handful of seasons. In recent history, they fought for the championship ‘till almost the last race several times. Think Massa, Alonso twice, Vettel twice. That’s a much better statistic than McLaren, who have done everything the ‘British way’. 

This shows how high the level of engineering is at Ferrari, and always has been. Too often underestimated by those who have little knowledge about the sport.