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Post by Carl on Dec 7, 2017 21:02:40 GMT
Talented driver and Motor Sport Magazine working class hero, Richard Meaden, wrote an interesting analysis of historic racing centered on the speed differential between then and now. Many would prefer that these venerated cars be legislated somehow to remain always the same as when they raced. Meaden agrees somewhat, on principle, but thinks doing so is not practical. One example he gives involves suspension geometry. The Ford Lotus Cortina famously would lift its inside wheel like a dance hall hussy, but doesn't today because of advances in chassis engineering and computer assisted analysis of suspension geometry. A better handling car is therefore also faster. Probably the one area on which most agree, fans and competitors alike, involves horsepower available then and now. If a race engine was reliable in period with 240 bhp but with modern metallurgy, lubricants and dynamometer analysis is reliable today with 315 bhp, there's little historic about that. Maybe a system, popular on American short oval tracks, wherein the winner's engine can be claimed for a set dollar amount, would level the playing field in historic road racing as well. Spectators are divided, wanting more spectacle of speed, while many also miss the spectacle of Jim Clark and other great drivers compromising Ford of England's modesty by unseemly displays of fender wells. Historic Alfa-Romeos still do! Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted |
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Post by René on Dec 8, 2017 0:00:11 GMT
I am all in favor of the front wheel lift!
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Post by Carl on Dec 8, 2017 20:34:08 GMT
Following the 1978 Australian Grand Prix, held for Formula 5000 cars at Sandown Park, there was an event featuring vintage Grand Prix cars. It included Juan Manuel Fangio in his Mercedes W196 and Jack Brabham in his BT-19. These two put on a show of close racing that astonishes. They raced carefully and gracefully, but also at speed because this was not a demonstration and each wanted to beat the other. Although there were a few other cars and drivers, these two great champions are the entire spotlight. Imagine Astaire and Baryshnikov, with great respect for each other, enjoying total freedom on a dance floor...
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Post by René on Dec 8, 2017 21:39:26 GMT
Carl, this is so fantastic I get emotional watching it. I see a common thread between your posts: dance.  |
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Post by Carl on Dec 9, 2017 1:29:41 GMT
Rene,
I'm glad you enjoyed it. Every time I see it I wish I'd been there. Their combined age of 119 had no meaning as they displayed world class car control that was ageless.
Cheers, Carl
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Post by charleselan on Dec 9, 2017 19:32:03 GMT
Following the 1978 Australian Grand Prix, held for Formula 5000 cars at Sandown Park, there was an event featuring vintage Grand Prix cars. It included Juan Manuel Fangio in his Mercedes W196 and Jack Brabham in his BT-19. These two put on a show of close racing that astonishes. They raced carefully and gracefully, but also at speed because this was not a demonstration and each wanted to beat the other. Although there were a few other cars and drivers, these two great champions are the entire spotlight. Imagine Astaire and Baryshnikov, with great respect for each other, enjoying total freedom on a dance floor... A truly wonderful bit of footage. Fangio was absolutely amazing in the W196, he must have been at least 78 years old in this film; unbelievable. At the end there is a shot of Jack being driven around in an open topped car, he looked much older than he should have done in 1978, as that was only 8 years after he had retired in 1970. So that would have made him mid 50's, maybe the ill health had already begun to affect him. |
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Post by chrisb on Dec 10, 2017 9:09:47 GMT
when I saw Fangio at Donington in 1979 driving the Merc it was one of the most abiding memories I have ever had, he was wrestling with the wheel, power sliding and doing things a 20 year old couldn't do with a car, i have such a wonderful memory of this -- vivid and very clear and the brute of a noise, wonder why I can't get excited about modern F1...
incidentally has anyone else this months Motor Sport, there is a comment in the editorial which has prompted a strong response to the current editor, and very nearly after years of subscription, cancelling Motor Sport, I am left [almost] speechless - astonishing
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Post by Jamie on Dec 10, 2017 9:25:04 GMT
when I saw Fangio at Donington in 1979 driving the Merc it was one of the most abiding memories I have ever had, he was wrestling with the wheel, power sliding and doing things a 20 year old couldn't do with a car, i have such a wonderful memory of this -- vivid and very clear and the brute of a noise, wonder why I can't get excited about modern F1... incidentally has anyone else this months Motor Sport, there is a comment in the editorial which has prompted a strong response to the current editor, and very nearly after years of subscription, cancelling Motor Sport, I am left [almost] speechless - astonishing I haven't read the latest mag yet, I'm a bit behind with several books on the go. Are you referring to the Editor's opening page? I'll go and have a look 👍 |
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Post by charleselan on Dec 10, 2017 10:29:29 GMT
In a PM with my good friend Carl it would appear that I have given El Maestro ten extra years in 1978, and I thought my mathematical skills had improved with age  . So the great man was in actual fact 67 years of age in this wonderful film. Also it would appear that there is an anomaly towards the end of the clip where Jack Brabham is shown being driven around in the open topped car, somehow this was slipped in from many years later, hence Jack looking much older. Carl assures me that when he met Jack around that time he was hale and hearty with jet black hair. Incidentally I can recommend the "message" option on the site for chatting with fellow members. |
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Post by Carl on Dec 13, 2017 22:23:09 GMT
A well driven lap of Road America in a McLaren M6B originally driven by Oscar Koveleski. This video has great definition and can be enjoyed full screen.
Fifty years after, John Surtees reminisces at Goodwood about his Can-Am championship year
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Post by René on Dec 13, 2017 23:39:18 GMT
Great videos Carl. Love the start at St. Jovite!  And what an amazing racer John Surtees was. Inboard shots at Road America are always a treat, great stuff! |
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Post by Carl on Dec 14, 2017 0:48:27 GMT
Rene,
One anecdote I recall about John Surtees happened during his Grand Prix days. At a cafe in a town nearby to a circuit, there was a motorcycle and someone had offered a young woman a ride with John Surtees. She asked whether he knew how to ride one and wasn't sure what the ensuing laughter was all about.
On the lap of Road America, Jim Pace laps about 5 seconds faster than Bruce McLaren had for pole in his M6A, probably because of modern tyres and engine tuning.
The big challenge at Road America has always been to take the kink (just past the long right hand carousel of Turn 9) without lifting. Probably because historic Can-Am cars can't entirely be modernized, he noticeably lifts to allow the car to settle itself before entry.
Cheers, Carl
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Post by René on Dec 14, 2017 18:39:09 GMT
Does he know how to ride a motorbike? Haha, great. How charming.
I think many classic cars, road or race, perform better with modern tyres and modern tuning and lubrication. Tyres are also often a bit wider.
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Post by Carl on Dec 14, 2017 19:43:45 GMT
Tyres are also often a bit wider. As are, in some cases, the historic drivers I remember when Nigel Mansell, fresh from CART success, couldn't easily fit into the Williams. |
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Post by chrisb on Dec 14, 2017 22:07:47 GMT
Carl, didn't Mansell try to fit in the McLaren? wasn't that a union of interesting proportions?
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. So the great man was in actual fact 67 years of age in this wonderful film. Also it would appear that there is an anomaly towards the end of the clip where Jack Brabham is shown being driven around in the open topped car, somehow this was slipped in from many years later, hence Jack looking much older. Carl assures me that when he met Jack around that time he was hale and hearty with jet black hair.
And what an amazing racer John Surtees was.