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Post by Carl on Aug 21, 2021 18:19:58 GMT
René,
A very sad day and somber Grand Prix. I was struck by how many F1 cars placed drivers so far front, including Ferrari. Hindsight of tragic events is always an exercise in what could have been.
Cheers, Carl
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Post by René on Aug 22, 2021 12:12:08 GMT
René, A very sad day and somber Grand Prix. I was struck by how many F1 cars placed drivers so far front, including Ferrari. Hindsight of tragic events is always an exercise in what could have been. Cheers, Carl The drivers position with his feet sometimes even in front of the front axle was insanely dangerous. The designers focus on a perfect ground effect car placed the gas tank between the engine and the driver. Safety was almost none existent.  |
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Post by mikael on Aug 22, 2021 19:38:58 GMT
René, A very sad day and somber Grand Prix. I was struck by how many F1 cars placed drivers so far front, including Ferrari. Hindsight of tragic events is always an exercise in what could have been. Cheers, Carl The drivers position with his feet sometimes even in front of the front axle was insanely dangerous. The designers focus on a perfect ground effect car placed the gas tank between the engine and the driver. Safety was almost none existent. When the mechanics still got dirty hands :-) I don't think this happens in F1 anymore ... Now someone with hands like that wouldn't be permitted to touch the car.
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Post by robmarsh on Aug 23, 2021 7:54:20 GMT
I think the Porsche 917 and 908/3 were the first front line racing cars to have the drivers feet ahead of the front axle.
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Post by René on Aug 23, 2021 9:10:23 GMT
I think the Porsche 917 and 908/3 were the first front line racing cars to have the drivers feet ahead of the front axle. Rob, you’re correct. I never realized but the blueprint below shows that is the case indeed. That Porsche is much smaller and shorter than it shows on pictures I think.  |
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Post by chrisb on Aug 23, 2021 16:31:23 GMT
they really were sheer brutes with little reference to safety, that really was such a dreadful moment in life, something that needn't have happened and is still regretted everyday since,
Rene, these are wonderful photos for such a tragic weekend,
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Post by charleselan on Aug 24, 2021 13:32:05 GMT
If one looks at it in the cold light of the day then race car designers would appear to pay scant concern for the safety of the driver over the years. What is worse sighting the driver with his feet and legs ahead of the front axle line or sitting them between aluminium fuel tanks full of high octane petrol.
In the Jackie Stewart test of the Adrian Newey designed March he comments on the discomfort experienced by the driver due to the designers desire to achieve the ultimate in design concept.
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Post by charleselan on Aug 25, 2021 17:02:37 GMT
Seeing those drawings of the Porsche 917 makes you realise how brave those guys were who drove them back in the day. Just a few metal tubes and some glass fibre is all that covered them, and on top of that they were brutal machines with far more power than the chassis could handle, especially with the early incarnation.
Interestingly the 908/3 was even more extreme and was to all intent a Kart, anyone designing a car like that now would get locked up. I think that Brian Redman had a big accident in one of those and badly broke a leg, possibly at the Targa Florio but not certain. None the less a brilliant car designed to do a job in the day and super successful.
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Post by robmarsh on Aug 26, 2021 8:32:00 GMT
Hi Charles, it was the 1971 Targa Florio. BR had come out of retirement and was asked to drive the opening stint. Siffert had damaged the front of the car the day before during practice. Just before the start a mechanic said to Redman that if you going to crash don't do it on the right side because that's where the fuel tanks are. Redman crashed on the first lap when the steering broke and he crashed into a wall on the right side which caused the fuel tank to split and the car to burst into flames. He suffered very bad burns and was stuck in a very rudimentary Sicilian hospital until rescued by Rodriguez and Elford around 11pm that night.
The above information was obtained from his autobiography.
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Post by René on Aug 26, 2021 9:47:58 GMT
Hi Charles, it was the 1971 Targa Florio. BR had come out of retirement and was asked to drive the opening stint. Siffert had damaged the front of the car the day before during practice. Just before the start a mechanic said to Redman that if you going to crash don't do it on the right side because that's where the fuel tanks are. Redman crashed on the first lap when the steering broke and he crashed into a wall on the right side which caused the fuel tank to split and the car to burst into flames. He suffered very bad burns and was stuck in a very rudimentary Sicilian hospital until rescued by Rodriguez and Elford around 11pm that night. The above information was obtained from his autobiography. Those were the days...  |
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Post by charleselan on Aug 26, 2021 10:47:08 GMT
Hi Charles, it was the 1971 Targa Florio. BR had come out of retirement and was asked to drive the opening stint. Siffert had damaged the front of the car the day before during practice. Just before the start a mechanic said to Redman that if you going to crash don't do it on the right side because that's where the fuel tanks are. Redman crashed on the first lap when the steering broke and he crashed into a wall on the right side which caused the fuel tank to split and the car to burst into flames. He suffered very bad burns and was stuck in a very rudimentary Sicilian hospital until rescued by Rodriguez and Elford around 11pm that night. The above information was obtained from his autobiography. Hi Rob, Many thanks indeed for clearing that up. I had an idea that it might have been the same accident in which Brian Redman was seriously burnt but my memory was a little unclear, such a thing when ones head is full of all sorts of rubbish  . A serious reminder of how exposed those drivers were in the cars of that time. I wonder what Bjorn Waldegaard thought about the 908/3 when coming from his rally cars like a 911, must have made him think a bit. I can also well imagine that the Sicilian hospital of the time being rudimentary when one reflects on DSJ's writings of the event in the 1960/70's. Apparently one didn't venture too much into the mountainous terrain of the circuit as there were known bandit activities in those regions. As René says "those were the days". |
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Post by robmarsh on Aug 26, 2021 15:04:45 GMT
Brian Redman also broke his arm in two places when the front suspension broke on his Cooper Maserati at Spa during the 1968 Belgian GP.
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Post by René on Aug 10, 2022 10:44:21 GMT
Came across this fantastic footage of free practice session at Long Beach 1982. Several corners and angles I have not seen before in the race coverage. The quality is superb though.
Carl, you will love this!
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Post by Carl on Aug 10, 2022 17:51:21 GMT
Came across this fantastic footage of free practice session at Long Beach 1982. Several corners and angles I have not seen before in the race coverage. The quality is superb though.
Carl, you will love this!
Very cool footage of the penultimate F1 race weekend in Long Beach, but sad to see Gilles Villeneuve so near to tragedy. The Chamber of Commerce, now in control with plans to avoid Ocean Boulevard all together (better for business), had opened up one end of Shoreline Drive and tightened up the other, providing several new corners and changing the approach to the steep Pine Avenue with a faster left hand turn replacing the previous chicane from the other side. I remember being displeased with the removal of the second hairpin because the approach at 190 mph had been so exciting as cars went three wide under braking, but the next year's radical amputation of Pine and Linden Avenues made a great circuit dull. |
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. A serious reminder of how exposed those drivers were in the cars of that time. I wonder what Bjorn Waldegaard thought about the 908/3 when coming from his rally cars like a 911, must have made him think a bit.