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Post by robmarsh on Apr 8, 2021 18:14:20 GMT
I see the good Dr is excluding Charles from the 'two best' hopefully he will proved wrong - yet again Chris, Do you mean Doctor Marko? If I were his patient, I would allow no injections and insist on being close to an emergency exit.  -Carl I think you are right Murray (Carl). He is a doctor of law which explains his bedside manner but I wouldn't like him leading my defence. |
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Post by chrisb on Apr 9, 2021 5:48:22 GMT
Carl, I do indeed sir, refer to the 'good' Dr in law Marko, our esteemed philosopher of questionable bed manners
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Post by robmarsh on Apr 9, 2021 7:53:19 GMT
I would hate to have Marko as a brother in law let alone a doctor in law
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Post by charleselan on Apr 9, 2021 17:15:21 GMT
I find it a great pity that dear old Helmut cannot always be as he was when talking about his great friend Niki, in that he came across as a pleasant human being. Shame he doesn't rate Max  . |
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Post by chrisb on Apr 10, 2021 7:21:40 GMT
He was the same when he spoke of Jochen, maybe Helmut is another who feels that management is best when intimidating, or maybe he is just angry at a lot of people
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Post by robmarsh on Apr 10, 2021 7:27:03 GMT
I think you have a point Chris-his eye injury which cut short a promising career might have something to do with it.
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Post by charleselan on Apr 10, 2021 12:41:48 GMT
The shame was that Helmut was a very good driver indeed and would undoubtedly gone on to greater things. However as bad as loosing an eye is for someone plying his trade in motor sport he at least came out of it with his life intact which many others of his era did not.
He also had the great distinction of winning the Le Mans 24 Hours, and in a Porsche 917, something Seppi and Pedro were prevented from doing by lack of reliability.
If for some perverse reasons he is embittered, then he should not be, and he should be proud of what he actually achieved.
Helmuts management style leaves a great deal to be desired, not only for the so called "hard man" attitude but his flagrant favouritism of those he feels deserve his patronage.
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Post by René on Apr 12, 2021 16:54:35 GMT
The shame was that Helmut was a very good driver indeed and would undoubtedly gone on to greater things. However as bad as loosing an eye is for someone plying his trade in motor sport he at least came out of it with his life intact which many others of his era did not. He also had the great distinction of winning the Le Mans 24 Hours, and in a Porsche 917, something Seppi and Pedro were prevented from doing by lack of reliability. If for some perverse reasons he is embittered, then he should not be, and he should be proud of what he actually achieved. Helmuts management style leaves a great deal to be desired, not only for the so called "hard man" attitude but his flagrant favouritism of those he feels deserve his patronage. Yes, Helmut can be a bit of an enigma at times.
I remember a few years back he was a guest in a popular talk show on Dutch tv to talk about Max. He came across very well as he was articulate and humorous and told a few juicy anecdotes from his own racing career and how he drove the Porsche together with Gijs van Lennep as teammate. He was a very good promotor of the sport in that capacity. But I agree that his harsh management style often comes across as quite the opposite.
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Post by robmarsh on Apr 12, 2021 17:04:27 GMT
It is the management styles of Tonto, Marko and Horner that anger me and the way they treat their young charges. It goes against the grain. I have worked in companies that have a "rule by fear" management style and it is very destructive and certainly does not get the best out of me. To me it should only be used if someone is delinquent and deliberately tries to destroy things or put a spanner in the works. None of the drivers who have been affected by these three can be accused of that.
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Post by charleselan on Apr 12, 2021 22:22:39 GMT
It is the management styles of Tonto, Marko and Horner that anger me and the way they treat their young charges. It goes against the grain. I have worked in companies that have a "rule by fear" management style and it is very destructive and certainly does not get the best out of me. To me it should only be used if someone is delinquent and deliberately tries to destroy things or put a spanner in the works. None of the drivers who have been affected by these three can be accused of that. Rob, I worked under a truly appalling manager from the mid 1990's who had very similar personality traits to certain politicians I could mention currently. He lied constantly, fabricated memos to try and get himself out of the sh1t, bullied staff (tried it on with me but unfortunately for him, wrong guy  ) and broke every known work conduct protocol known to mankind. A truly appalling character. I cannot stand aggressive management styles and believe them to be completely counter productive. JC |
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Post by robmarsh on Apr 13, 2021 17:57:28 GMT
It is the management styles of Tonto, Marko and Horner that anger me and the way they treat their young charges. It goes against the grain. I have worked in companies that have a "rule by fear" management style and it is very destructive and certainly does not get the best out of me. To me it should only be used if someone is delinquent and deliberately tries to destroy things or put a spanner in the works. None of the drivers who have been affected by these three can be accused of that. Rob, I worked under a truly appalling manager from the mid 1990's who had very similar personality traits to certain politicians I could mention currently. He lied constantly, fabricated memos to try and get himself out of the sh1t, bullied staff (tried it on with me but unfortunately for him, wrong guy ) and broke every known work conduct protocol known to mankind. A truly appalling character. I cannot stand aggressive management styles and believe them to be completely counter productive. JC I agree, the people actually look very small to others. |
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Post by chrisb on Apr 13, 2021 21:05:06 GMT
unfortunately for me I too have experienced this style of mis management and was put upon a great deal, all to no avail, as I never let them know if it affected me or not, it used to drive them nuts, the trouble was it was the NHS, and it was rife, better much better now and the dinosaurs are gone and mostly held in contempt - it just doesn't work, motivation, giving people responsibility, trusting them - or maybe themselves, that is what works for me. I watched many a person crumble or become sycophants, and watched others become outsiders, when I look back it was just pathetic, I just think they got it so wrong.
When I take this to a motor racing scene, I am completely at a loss, to become a motor racer surely you must have motivation as well as other attributes way beyond mere mortals, why on earth would you want to try 'tough love' with them? surely building their confidence up would be more productive?showing them where they are losing out, instead of the fear of losing your drive - maybe I am completely wrong on this, I just find it puzzling, as for Dr Marko, I have no idea what his boss is like, the fizzy drinks guy - is that the style of management he likes?
Love him or loathe him Colin Chapman was both an incredible motivator and could be a nasty piece of work as a boss, but he did inspire - but from what I think he sussed out each person and knew how to get the best out of them, possibly, not sure on that one
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Post by robmarsh on Apr 14, 2021 6:52:53 GMT
Your middle paragraph says it all Chris especially as these are young guys who have lead a very one sided life without the multi faceted experience that others go through which would equip them better to deal with things.
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Post by charleselan on Apr 14, 2021 15:36:03 GMT
Funny thing with Colin Chapman was that some loved him; others tolerated him and some had no time for him. He was a genius but flew more than close to the wind. He was a hero to me for what he did with his team and cars, and of course Jim and Ronnie drove for him, so it was always my team and always will be.
However I am under no illusions about Colin as a man; a genius yes and at times inspirational but also a chancer. He had an amazing rapport with Jim Clark, but even before the end I think Jim was wary. Graham was no bodies push over and could be a cantankerous soul so Chapman would have been respectful there. Jochen and Colin had some major "bust ups" apparently mainly centred around what Jochen was prepared to drive and he was no shrinking violet so sparks were inevitable.
Emerson had a great relationship with Colin but that soured in 1973, but you would not think that now as Mr Fittipaldi is very respectful of his relationship with Colin in hindsight.
Ronnie just got on with the job, and the fact that he was Colin's main asset, it was probably more like Jim Clark's relationship but Ronnie was aware of Colin's character. Probably the greatest compliment he paid Ronnie was making him sign that Number 2 contract for 1978.
Mario has always mentioned that he and Chapman had a close working relationship and Colin viewed him as an equal, whereas he was surprised at how he treated Gunnar and was none too respectful.
One of Colin's most memorable attributes concerning employees was his rash temper and fire them, only for one hour later to enquire they were not working on what he had wanted them to be working on. The employee would then say but you have fired me, he would bluster and dismiss it without ever an apology, as if nothing had been said. I can't imagine working for a guy like that, well I wouldn't I am afraid genius or no.
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Post by Carl on Apr 14, 2021 17:18:15 GMT
I had a close encounter with Colin Chapman in the lobby of the Bowmanville, Ontario, Holiday Inn during the weekend of the 1973 Canadian Grand Prix. My friend and I had a room at an ordinary motel and went one evening to where most Grand Prix participants were staying. While I sat beside a coffee table enjoying the atmosphere, Chapman appeared and perused the selection of magazines on the table with a harsh expression serving as a clear barrier. Having heard he did not like being approached by strangers, I quietly observed as he chose a magazine and left.
A few minutes later, the most famous and accomplished of Road & Track magazine's Formula One correspondents came by with Denis Hulme and I approached and spoke for several minutes with a very nice world champion and the very gracious Rob Walker.
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) and broke every known work conduct protocol known to mankind. A truly appalling character.