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Post by Carl on Jan 29, 2021 1:14:12 GMT
Five reasons the Model T was revolutionary
Ford Motel T basic driving instructions:
This song and dance number from "Sons of the Desert", Laurel and Hardy's most popular film, begins as the two arrive at their duplex apartments thinking they had fooled their wives, then goes back a few hours to a scandalous nightclub where a very cool band, a young singer and bevy of beautiful wahines in grass skirts and barely existent tops entertain their fraternal club.
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Post by chrisb on Jan 29, 2021 10:00:46 GMT
wonderful, sorry not the car but Laurel and Hardy, often imitated never bettered and still makes me cry with laughter, in saying that I am still looking for a copy of the 'Battle of the Century' surely the most brilliant custard pie fight in cinematic history
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Post by mikael on Jan 29, 2021 10:05:41 GMT
The very different layout - from what we have gotten used to - of pedals and control devices on the Ford Model T makes me wonder: who (what manufacturer) was the first to come up with the pedal/gear lever setup that went on to became the standard: a central gear shifter, and three pedals, from left to right: clutch, brake, and accelerator?
Interesting to note that many - and perhaps even most - racing cars (and many sports cars), up to the late 1950's, had the accelerator in central position, with the brake pedal to the right (and again, the clutch pedal to the left).
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Post by Carl on Jan 29, 2021 17:22:27 GMT
The place where the Model T innovations were described is the original Model T factory, built in 1904 and now a museum. The Piquette Avenue plant was Ford Motor Company's second overall.
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Post by Carl on Jan 29, 2021 17:25:30 GMT
wonderful, sorry not the car but Laurel and Hardy, often imitated never bettered and still makes me cry with laughter, in saying that I am still looking for a copy of the 'Battle of the Century' surely the most brilliant custard pie fight in cinematic history
Chris, This is the most intact copy of an almost lost classic:
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Post by chrisb on Jan 30, 2021 8:36:11 GMT
Carl, thank you, that really did bring tears of joy, what a priceless bit of film, sorry to go off track so to speak but that was such fun, and so many future stars involved in it as well,
talking of the middle pedal being the accelerator I seem to remember it was the continental cars who had that layout but the British F1 cars didn't and if memory serves wasn't there an accident caused by this? when a British driver not used to that layout pushed the wrong pedal and caused chaos? it is only a very vague memory but does remind me of a similar situation when in England we first got to ride Japanese bikes as their gears and brake levers were on the opposite side to what we were used to and I remember flying through the air once as a result of this
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Post by mikael on Jan 30, 2021 10:17:38 GMT
talking of the middle pedal being the accelerator I seem to remember it was the continental cars who had that layout but the British F1 cars didn't and if memory serves wasn't there an accident caused by this? when a British driver not used to that layout pushed the wrong pedal and caused chaos? it is only a very vague memory but does remind me of a similar situation when in England we first got to ride Japanese bikes as their gears and brake levers were on the opposite side to what we were used to and I remember flying through the air once as a result of this
That's exactly true, Chris - the British bikes had the gear lever to the right and the brake pedal to the left. For the Japanese bikes, it was the opposite. Illustrating this are photos of (i) a 1955 Triumph (500cc) and (ii) a 1982 Suzuki RM250 (250cc) - the last motocross bike I owned myself (before stopping ...).
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Post by mikael on Jan 30, 2021 10:41:36 GMT
A Swedish and an Italian motocross bike from the same period (1982), both with brake pedal on the right side, and gear lever on the left - so apparently, this layout went on to become the standard one.
1982 Husquarna 500cc (Sweden)
1982 Cagiva 125cc (Italy)
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Post by mikael on Jan 30, 2021 10:54:42 GMT
... and while I'm at it: British Greeves motorcycles (for motocross), from early to mid-1960's, still had the gear lever to the right, and the brake pedal to the left. But on some (early) models, the brake drum was placed on the right-hand side as well, and the left-hand side pedal then worked through a linkage mechanism. I find this interesting ...
A Greeves (from probably around 1965) with the gear shifter on the right-hand side, and rear brake drum on the left-hand side.
A Greeves (probably 1960) with the brake drum on the right-hand side; but still, the gear shifter is still on the right-hand side as well. (The necessary linkage mechanism to the left-hand side brake pedal can be seen.)
Dave Bickers on Greeves, with both rear brake drum and gear lever to the right.
Finally, a British CCM (Clews Competition Motorcycles) from 1980, still with right-hand side gear lever.
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Post by charleselan on Jan 30, 2021 11:47:56 GMT
That is correct Mikael. When I began riding motocross bikes in the early to mid 1960's the bikes (all British in my experience) had the gear change on the left side and the rear brake on the right. Of course bikes in earlier times, pre WW2, the gear change was actually done by hand often wit the lever up by the fuel tank.
When I came back to riding bikes and on the road for the first time in the early 1990's I went to one of the UK motorcycle training schools, initially for a free familiarisation. This was in the car park outside the Swindon Speedway track, and there I had my first taste of a motorcycle for a very long time. The instructor asked what my experience was and I said that as a school kid many years previously I had done motocross. He said that is fine you never forget how to ride and the only difference will be the gear change on the right and rear brake on the left.
I was given a 125cc Two Stroke Honda Trail Bike which I instantly loved and the reverse gear change never once was an issue it just came naturally.
Great pictures of the 1960's Greeves machines as well, I had great ambitions to own a Greeves, but they ere more expensive even as used models than the DOT machine my dad bought for me. The Greeves seemed lower in the seat and also much softer in the suspension; I rode some belonging to other guys at the time.
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Post by mikael on Jan 30, 2021 12:33:35 GMT
JC,
yes, I guess one can easily get used to one or the other layout - and both will soon feel equally natural.
It's the same with cars; to shift gears with the left hand or the right hand, it's really not an issue, I think. The only "real" trouble with shifting from one layout to the other is that the wiper and turn signal switches also are reversed. Actually, I have exported/imported my good old (right-hand side steering wheel) car from Japan here to my old country, and when I switch to a car with left-hand side steering wheel (like when visiting my mother and drive her car) I always, for the first ten minutes or so, accidentally (by reflex) switch on the windshield wiper every time I want to activate the turn signal ...
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Post by René on Jan 30, 2021 13:01:56 GMT
I found driving an 'English' car and shifting gears with left never an issue. I needed more time getting used to roundabouts and crossroads when I drove in the UK for the first time. They all go the wrong way!
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Post by Carl on Jan 30, 2021 19:04:27 GMT
Carl, thank you, that really did bring tears of joy, what a priceless bit of film, sorry to go off track so to speak but that was such fun, and so many future stars involved in it as well, talking of the middle pedal being the accelerator I seem to remember it was the continental cars who had that layout but the British F1 cars didn't and if memory serves wasn't there an accident caused by this? when a British driver not used to that layout pushed the wrong pedal and caused chaos? it is only a very vague memory but does remind me of a similar situation when in England we first got to ride Japanese bikes as their gears and brake levers were on the opposite side to what we were used to and I remember flying through the air once as a result of this Chris,
While watching, I was unaware of the very young Lou Costello in a ringside seat (at 1:50 and several subsequent crowd shots), that the pie deliveryman was future constant Laurel and Hardy foil Charlie Hall and the insurance salesman was wonderful character actor Eugene Pallete, of rotund torso and gravelly voice. I immediately noticed the beautiful Dorothy Coburn, who joined the pie fight after a long distance pie thrown by Hardy struck her shapely rearend. She was a frequent innocent bystander in later Laurel and Hardy films.
Dorothy Coburn was not in the cast of "The Music Box" but neither was a prop washing machine. This is a still to generate publicity for everyone connected to Hal Roach Studios.
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Post by charleselan on Jan 30, 2021 19:18:31 GMT
Interesting photos of the Greeves motocross machines in Mikael's post above. The first picture of the more modern machine with the green fuel tank is a Greeves Griffin; I have seen the same picture listed in my search engine and it is claimed to be a Greeves Challenger. It is not a Challenger but the Griffin the model which followed the Challenger and was a late 1960's machine ridden by the likes of Bryan "Wild" Wade (who although a Yorkshire man moved to my local town in Gloucestershire and among many things owned a used car dealership), another was Scotsman Vic Allen both very good riders.
The oldest Greeves in the photos was as Mikael states approx 1960 and is not the full house motocross bike by Greeves at this time which was a Hawkstone, named after the great track in Shropshire but a modified trials version. The early Hawkstone's had Villiers engines with cast iron round cylinder barrels and the later models had alloy square barrels. My friend I practiced with had one of these, he had a farm owner father and obviously had more money than my parents. It was a good bike but by the time we were racing it had become outclassed by more modern machines.
The model ridden by David Bickers is a Greeves 24MCS and it is on these bikes that he won two consecutive 250cc European Championships. This too became outclassed by Husqvarna's etc and Greeves then brought out the beautiful Challenger model which featured Greeves own engine that replaced the Villiers units. Bickers went very well on these Challenger machines but lost out to Swedish rider Torsten Hallman on a Husky and Joel Robert on a CZ. The challenger initially had the unique Greeves leading link front forks but Dave Bickers eventually swapped them for the then highly rated Italian Ceriani telescopic forks. Eventually Dave bought a Husqvarna himself and raced that very successfully and then had a brief return to Greeves before ending up with factory CZ's for the rest of his top line career.
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Post by chrisb on Jan 31, 2021 9:43:38 GMT
what a wonderful thread,
Carl, did you also notice the great directors also involved - the immortal George Stevens, one of my favourite directors of any time, so many great films but of course Shane is the one most remember, I still sometimes watch this film and for me is a far greater film than John Ford's - but that is a personal opinion, although in saying that Wagon Train is also a masterpiece. And Leo McCarey whose directorial output included one the very best screwball comedies - the Awful Truth, wonderful sheer joy. I didn't realise Lou was in the film but of course recognised Eugene with that brilliant voice, a wonderful character actor with the Ghost goes West being one of my favourites.
When I first road the Suzuki I reckon it was around 1971/2 and had been riding a BSA Bantam, which was a great bike but the little 80cc Suzuki was a flying machine by comparison and it did threw me off without hesitation when I got confused. I last rode a bike with the gears on the right was a Royal Enfield in India in 2006, coincidentally I had a Suzuki GSFX 750 at home and whilst I didn't have any problems getting the gears mixed up I did nearly fly off over the bars when I touched the front brake as having gotten used to drum brakes in India. Oh how we laughed...
When I drive left-hand drive cars I don't remember having many problems, with left or right gear changes nor European roundabouts, in fact they seem much more logical to me, some of the French driving laws throw me but I think it does to others but it is when I come back to the UK is when I have problems re-adjusting to the roundabouts as my logical side thinks driving on the right makes more sense fortunately I don't practice it
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