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Post by René on Oct 11, 2020 18:04:24 GMT
"Citation of the day" from RTL's main F1 commentator Florian König (an excellent commentator, by the way): "To those who believe that Valtteri Bottas can take the 2020 Championship: it's like believing in Santa Claus."
That made me laugh ...  Yep that was funny.  The German RTL Grand Prix team is very good. Florian König is superb and has been for many years. He was a great team with Niki Lauda, they really had a match. Also Heiko Wasser and Christian Danner who do the actual race commentary are a pleasure and often they are teamed up with Nico Rosberg. There's only one negative for me and that is that the German broadcast is 'only' in HD quality. The Dutch broadcast is in Ultra HD and that really makes a difference but Dutch commentary is dreadful, I hate that guy.  |
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Post by René on Oct 11, 2020 18:14:41 GMT
Mikael, That is hilarious, but Oh! so true. The guy was in with a chance today of beating Hamilton, but rooted his front tyres and then had the me chancel disaster; it could only happen to him. I really cannot see Nico Rosberg ever doing that, as he said yesterday when you have the momentum over Hamilton you keep him down. JC Under normal circumstances, Valtteri will never beat Lewis. And I don't think he's as good as Rosberg was and I also think Lewis will not let that happen again. But Bottas is still a very good driver and good for him to keep believing in the title. Better try to do 'a Rosberg' then being 'an Irvine'. |
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Post by René on Oct 11, 2020 18:21:19 GMT
Trying to watch the race with a far more compelling Moto2 race running at the same time (MotoGP was run earlier to avoid the clash with the earlier running than normal F1 race) proved difficult. Some of my analysis may be a bit controversial but to us e the current phrase "it is what it is". Bottas blew it even before the mechanical failure, by destroying his front tyres and handing the lead to Hamilton. Max never really threatened although was close, I was expecting more from him to be honest. Charles Leclerc's early defence was excellent but no one stands a chance of doing a "Jarama Villeneuve" these days with that bloody awful, and false, drag reduction system which removes any possibility of a driver holding position through race craft. The fact that he kept Ricciardo behind for so long was testimony to the lads skills. Anyway the Ferrari was woefully slow anyway in race trim. A point highlighted by the performance of Leclerc's team mate. I have to say this but I feel that Sebastian Vettel is a "busted flush" now, he will never regain the powers that he once held; going to the Pink Squad may revitalise him a bit, but......... Nico Hulkenberg was outstanding in my opinion and deserved the "Driver of the Day" award, that was one hell of a performance. The Fizzy Drinks team should really put him in the second car next year and place Alexander Albon back at Alpha Tauri alongside the ever impressive Pierre Gasly. Alexander needs to rebuild his career and confidence and keeping him at the main team will destroy his career, he is too good to be swept aside because of his current dilemma. Watching the S*KF1 coverage Croft was as dire as always with his outbursts that seem to make him sound like a man who had been subject to having his underpants pulled up far too sharply. Brundle also annoyed for the second day running with his supposed defence against the criticism of Hamilton's greatness. Firstly he mentioned that he had to beat his team mate, pretty obvious but what is the quality? Secondly he made the absurd comment that the best drivers always end up in the best cars, really tell that to Stirling Moss; JYS; Ronnie; Gilles; Ayrton in quite bit of his career etc etc! Plus', great to be back at the Nurburgring. Good analysis and not much to add. But I would like to mention Lando Norris who was very impressive again. I see a future Grand Prix winner here. They should get rid of DRS but I was happy for Danny, he deserved that. I'm afraid you're right about Sebastian. It's sad to see his Ferrari career end like this. |
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Post by charleselan on Oct 11, 2020 18:29:24 GMT
Trying to watch the race with a far more compelling Moto2 race running at the same time (MotoGP was run earlier to avoid the clash with the earlier running than normal F1 race) proved difficult. Some of my analysis may be a bit controversial but to us e the current phrase "it is what it is". Bottas blew it even before the mechanical failure, by destroying his front tyres and handing the lead to Hamilton. Max never really threatened although was close, I was expecting more from him to be honest. Charles Leclerc's early defence was excellent but no one stands a chance of doing a "Jarama Villeneuve" these days with that bloody awful, and false, drag reduction system which removes any possibility of a driver holding position through race craft. The fact that he kept Ricciardo behind for so long was testimony to the lads skills. Anyway the Ferrari was woefully slow anyway in race trim. A point highlighted by the performance of Leclerc's team mate. I have to say this but I feel that Sebastian Vettel is a "busted flush" now, he will never regain the powers that he once held; going to the Pink Squad may revitalise him a bit, but......... Nico Hulkenberg was outstanding in my opinion and deserved the "Driver of the Day" award, that was one hell of a performance. The Fizzy Drinks team should really put him in the second car next year and place Alexander Albon back at Alpha Tauri alongside the ever impressive Pierre Gasly. Alexander needs to rebuild his career and confidence and keeping him at the main team will destroy his career, he is too good to be swept aside because of his current dilemma. Watching the S*KF1 coverage Croft was as dire as always with his outbursts that seem to make him sound like a man who had been subject to having his underpants pulled up far too sharply. Brundle also annoyed for the second day running with his supposed defence against the criticism of Hamilton's greatness. Firstly he mentioned that he had to beat his team mate, pretty obvious but what is the quality? Secondly he made the absurd comment that the best drivers always end up in the best cars, really tell that to Stirling Moss; JYS; Ronnie; Gilles; Ayrton in quite bit of his career etc etc! Plus', great to be back at the Nurburgring. Good analysis and not much to add. But I would like to mention Lando Norris who was very impressive again. I see a future Grand Prix winner here. They should get rid of DRS but I was happy for Danny, he deserved that. I'm afraid you're right about Sebastian. It's sad to see his Ferrari career end like this. Yes I agree Lando Norris is very impressive and will win GP's without a doubt. I have noticed that he is getting very assertive on the radio these days; "don't talk to me I am in the middle of a battle here"! |
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Post by Carl on Oct 12, 2020 1:29:08 GMT
After so many dull and sterile Tilke tracks, I happily adjusted to the second generation Nurburgring after decades convinced it was second rate compared to the original, partly because I never lost my childhood fascination with karussells and fast leaps.
 Today's race was often exciting midfield, but for podium positions not until near the end when everyone closed behind the safety car. Another contest of tyre strategy, best illustrated when Bottas, charging after his early pit stop, was allowed past because the other driver knew his own stop would be soon. This was for position! |
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Post by robmarsh on Oct 12, 2020 8:07:49 GMT
An excellent summary Charles. It was a very poignant moment for the Schumacher family when Mick Schumacher handed over one of his Dad's helmets to LH. It was done with such dignity and class by a youngster I am very impressed with. It must have been a real wrench, not because Michael's record was equaled, but because Michael could not hand it over himself.
During my time as a F1 follower there are some drivers whose victories left me empty if not irritated afterwards. It was not though out their careers but only during certain "eras" of their time in F1.
Here they are:
Mansell 1987 and 1991/1992
Prost 1989/1990 and 1993
Schumacher 1994/95 and 2004/2005
Vettel 2012/2013
Hamilton 2014 to date.
Needless to say it was not because of their team or their driving ability, with the exception of Red Bull that is. edit ...and Mercedes since 2015.
Anybody else feel the same?
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Post by chrisb on Oct 12, 2020 8:28:03 GMT
I have just watched the highlights on utub, liked the circuit, undulating which is always fun, some fabulous drives, Danny and the Hulk, that was some going, just imagine what the races would be like sans MB, but had to turn the sound off, Croft - what are you doing? do yourself and us a favour, retire or takeover a more modest occupation
that is interesting Rob, and one I shall ponder, I really struggle with the current domination as it takes something exceptional [be it stupid or otherwise] for MB not to win, whereas historically we have always had the one or two drivers who could upset that domination, I am mainly thinking 1961 as it feels like a parallel in domination
I think my choices may not be so popular as yours Rob, but I would agree with Nigel 91/92, Alain 93, and add Michael, 94,95, 00.01.02,03,40,05 Seb, 12,13,14,15 Lewis, 14-onwards and would add, Farina, 50, Nelson 81, 83 [not 87] - and I am sure there would be further additions onceI have a ponder - but good one Rob
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Post by robmarsh on Oct 12, 2020 11:48:24 GMT
Ah Chris you raised a few there that I gave the benefit of the doubt to. Being an avid Ferrari supporter it was difficult to give 2000 to 2002 a thumbs down. 2001 was hard fought between Mika and Michael and the McLaren and Ferrari were well matched, so whoever was champion deserved to be. At least in 1961 there was more than one Ferrari driver allowed to win. Eddie Irvine should never have been allowed to drive for Ferrari, it was above his station in my opinion so I didn't mind MS winning all the races for Ferrari when they were team mates. I would agree with you re Farina but I didn't go that far back and yes, it does irritate me. Piquet in 1981 and 1983 are interesting because I think Nelson drove very well though there are some doubts as to the legality of the Brabham. I was so anti Prost for his politics in 1989 that he became the first Ferrari driver I never wanted to see win.
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Post by charleselan on Oct 12, 2020 17:31:21 GMT
I think that I will keep a positive momentum and select years that were outstanding for thinking of the tedious ones is so flaming depressing. There has been little to rave about over the past few with this never ending Mercedes Benz dominance; what makes it harder to take is Lewis Hamilton's constant comment at post race interview of how hard it all was.
Hard son, is when you have to drive a "sh*t box" every race with no chance of getting on the podium let alone winning a race, especially when you know you are the best out there, names surely need not be supplied from a historical context.
Best years for me always seem to have been ones that ended up with tragedies, but such was the game back then; fortunately not all did. For me it started with 1958 with some truly great drivers and cars from the front engined era and then on to 1962. Stirling was out of action the serious injuries and never to return so we had the new guard and four likely candidates with Jim; Dan; Graham and Big John. The little 1.5 litre cars were amazing and the introduction of the monocoque Lotus 25 changed everything.
1965 was a great year for me but mainly because it was Jim Clark's amazing season, but the last year of the little jewels was incredible. Following that I would say 1967 which had everything with a fantastic array of of different GP cars and some truly astonishing talent on the driver front, both established and new.
1969/9 & '70 were all brilliant seasons with 1970 probably being the greatest if one of the most tragic; with two truly amazing cars emerging in the form of the Lotus 72 and the Ferrari 312B.
For me however it would have to be 1973 as the next great year with a battle royal between Tyrrell & Lotus with McLaren thrown in as well with the very rapid Yardley sponsored M23. Probably JYS's finest championship based on his driving alone, but aided by Lotus' poor reliability early in the season.
Whether you rate James Hunt or not 1976 has to be rated as a great season for it had everything, with spade loads of drama to heighten its appeal. I cannot however put 1978 in as a choice even though the Lotus 79 was so special, much the same as would be applied to 1982.
For me 1983 was a brilliant season and Nelson did drive magnificently in a car that was beautifully conceived by Gordon Murray. OK the fuel that BMW produced was somewhat iffy, I know I have smelt it at first hand, but that took one hell of a driver to pilot that rocket ship. I have little sympathy with Renault for they were the manufacturer that introduced the turbo concept and even though having a huge head start never won a championship with it.
One of the best ever has to be 1985, so much variation and so many great drivers, probably the greatest in depth for talent there has ever been.
I have run out of steam now so that is it.
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Post by robmarsh on Oct 12, 2020 19:50:09 GMT
Pretty damn good Charles, can't fault any of it. Basically for me it is only since the domination of Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes, which is most of the last 20 years unfortunately, that F1 has become tedious. Otherwise I have loved it, even if my irritating driver of the day won some races, there was little chance of total domination. I haven't read enough of the 50s to pick my best seasons so will start with 1961 which appropriate as it was the Corgi Toys Model of the 1961 Ferrari that first piqued my interest. To me all of the 1.5 litre seasons were excellent. 1966 wasn't really as Ferrari fired their best driver and Lotus did not have a competitive car. 1967, 68, 69 70 were brilliant despite the tragedies. I enjoyed 71 because of Stewart and I loved that Tyrrell though I wished Ferrari had been more competitive. 1973 was excellent and I enjoyed 1974 especially Niki Lauda's rise. It was also the year I first attended a GP. 1975 was good because Lauda and Ferrari won but 1976 was a highlight year as were 1983, 1985, 1988, 1989, 1990 and 1991. The cars stopped being pretty after 1995 but compared to today's cars the 2009 Brawn was lovely.
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Post by chrisb on Oct 13, 2020 5:29:31 GMT
good idea JC, Rob
1962,63,64 and for me one of the best 1965, awesome year, all we needed was for Jimmy to be at Le Mans and the Targa to really have capped it off - I enjoyed 66 and adored 67 - 71,72,73,74,75,76, 77, 78, 79, 80, were great, in fact with the exceptions as mentioned above 84,85 which is also one of the best for me 86,87 and then I need to revise my thoughts, I did enjoy 96,97 98,99 - something to come back to methinks
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Post by robmarsh on Oct 13, 2020 8:28:47 GMT
"Hard son, is when you have to drive a "sh*t box" every race with no chance of getting on the podium let alone winning a race,"
I don't think Hamilton has ever really driven a "sh*tbox" in any race as he only ever drove for McLaren and Mercedes and had Mercedes power units in every race. McLaren were still possible race winners up even after he left. In fact as careers go his has been relatively easy ever since he came under McLaren's wing at age 10.
Like Mansell in 1992 he is making it out harder than it is. Maybe because deep down they know that such is their cars superiority and the lack of a competitive team mate so apparent, that the victories are hollow.
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Post by charleselan on Oct 13, 2020 10:51:03 GMT
Rob, You are absolutely correct as I now believe that I was being far too selective, all those years you have shown were fantastic, in fact all of the 1960's & 1970's were outstanding. Also the 1980's and early 1990's and of course those two years or so when Mika took the fight to Michael. Oh! and Jensen's title in the Brawn was pretty special. Although before my time I would also say 1957 and 1951 must have been fantastic seasons both of course including the amazing El Maestro. You are also spot on about Lewis Hamilton not ever having to drive a total "Sh*t Box" ( the term used by dear old Gilles to describe one of his Ferrari's, and Enzo still forgave him ). I refrained from mentioning that myself at the time but it is correct. I bet you any money that if MB pulled the plug next year he would quite the sport rather than take up the challenge elsewhere. JC |
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Post by robmarsh on Oct 13, 2020 12:23:02 GMT
Yep I agree Charles, I have a niggling feeling that MB, TW and LH will call it quits at the end of this year. I for one would be very happy to see the back of all of them. This season has not endeared any of them to me at all.
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Post by chrisb on Oct 14, 2020 7:29:54 GMT
I am torn, on the one hand Lewis did incredibly well to get into F1 and was brilliant on the way up to that McLaren seat and his ethnicity brought much joy to me - his determination to overcome financial and racial barriers to be one of the richest sportsman in the world is a story I enjoy, my other hand is tainted by his moving to MB and how that in a way spoiled him and his expectations, but I still respect him and he is certainly the quickest or one of the quickest out there but for me it would be like 67 and Jimmy with a reliable 49 just winning as he pleased but with grace and decorum and acknowledging that 'it was easy' whilst we hear 'how tough it was' - no Lewis it wasn't - just accept that you have the best car and the weakest team-mate you have had and you are winning as you please,
Rob, I had that sense of things several times this year, at the beginning of the year I was wondering 'what was left?' what challenges are there Lewis? none, and you are getting evermore involved in the wider perspectives of life, and taking an interest elsewhere, good on you and maybe it is time, as for Tonto, I am surprised he didn't buy Williams but do see him elsewhere than MB, as for MB I can see them pulling out as a team but not neccessarily as a supplier
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The German RTL Grand Prix team is very good. Florian König is superb and has been for many years. He was a great team with Niki Lauda, they really had a match. Also Heiko Wasser and Christian Danner who do the actual race commentary are a pleasure and often they are teamed up with Nico Rosberg. 
