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Post by charleselan on Apr 12, 2020 12:46:15 GMT
Over the past few evenings I have been watching quite a lot of mid/late 1970's early to mid 1980's motorcycle racing films on YouTube. I became aware of these as they suddenly came up as YT Recommended viewing on my TV.
They range from British Championship meetings to the Transatlantic Challenge races to GP events. The quality of nearly all are pretty good and highlights how good the racing in all these categories actually was in those times.
Last night I was treated to a brilliant 20 minutes of 1982 Grand Prix racing, with the opening round of the championship in Argentina. It featured a terrific three man duel with Kenny Roberts; Barry Sheene and Freddie Spencer. Kenny was on the full factory Yamaha; Freddie in his third ever FP aboard the new 3 cylinder 2 stroke works Honda, and Barry on a supposed factory Yamaha which in reality had far less support than Roberts machine.
These three exchanged places throughout the race but in the end Kenny just held off Barry thanks mainly to far better straight line performance, if anyone doubts that just see how he waltzes past on the long straight.
I have always believed that Sheene was every bit as good as Kenny, injuries hampered and restricted him obviously but so also did less good equipment from when on Suzuki and then when he switched to Yamaha.
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Post by chrisb on Apr 13, 2020 10:45:22 GMT
i know JC, I have been watching a number of these races, both GP and WSB as well as BSB, I hadn't realised just how good Niall MacKenzie was, having watched him finish 3rd at Donnington in 93, but also Nicky's first win at the brilliant and mesmerising Laguna Seca, surely a circuit I would love to see and have a wee drive around,
also up there are the duels between Rossi and Stoner, we talk of Marquez and he really is a phenomenon but so was Stoner, and their less publiscised races were equally dramatic, although Rossi is saying the 2008 Laguna race was one of his best,
Initially Robert's style had the edge as did his ruthlessness, but I always felt Sheene - one of the few extroverts I liked, learned a great deal, was it a case of if Sheene won it was down to him and when he lost it was down to the bike? the fact the Aussies took Sheene to their hearts kinda says a lot, I never understood why he ended up with lesser equipment, I have a great interview with Barry conducted by another great - Murray- and the affection was clear, i also have a DVD on Barry and his accidents, reminiscent of Stirling were life changing.
but whilst it is great to have all these fabulous races it is sort of stopping me from doing anything else, oh the sacrifices I make
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Post by charleselan on Apr 13, 2020 14:50:43 GMT
Yes Chris, the "old Trout" was pretty darn good and tough as old boots.
Baz was not only hugely talented and fast but he was above all else the master of tactics. More often than not he would cruise around behind the leaders until late in the race and then pull the pin as they say these days.
The first ever tarmac motorcycle race meeting I went to was the 1975 August round at Silverstone for the British championship run to Formula 750 rules. I went with my then very new girlfriend, the weather was very warm as it had been for most of that summer but forgotten in the midst of the heat wave of the following year.
I think the main race was run in two legs and it turned into a big battle between the two "Green Meanies" of Mick Grant and Barry Ditchburn and Baz on his Heron Suzuki, I believe all three being two stroke triples. My girlfriend immediately became a fan of the Kawasaki's, so we supported them; however Barry Sheene was just too good and won by a slight margin.
The following years things changed and I followed Barry and along with a good friend we always went to the British GP at Silverstone in the hope of seeing him win, sadly he never did.
His truly terrible accident in testing for the 1982 GP put an end to his season and more or less championship career. That year he could well have won the title and against the odds as he did not have the machinery that Kenny and some others had; as you say some parallels with Stirling Moss in that regard.
In hindsight maybe he should have stayed at Suzuki where he was their number one and the fact that they won the world championship in '81 & '82, however I think he became disenchanted with Suzuki for not listening to him in what he needed of the bike.
The other evening i viewed the highlights from the Yugoslavian GP from 1982, what a track that was and a bit like the old Austrian GP circuit. Baz led for lap after lap but the machine wasn't good enough to hold off the Suzuki of Franco Uncini, however he did look magnificent and the ultimate stylist on a bike.
When you see those guys racing on tracks like these one has to say how dare anyone say that the current crop are the greatest when they ride on glorified kart tracks in MotoGP now.
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Post by chrisb on May 10, 2020 10:13:29 GMT
JC, the motorbike clips keep on coming, there are some incredible races, from BSB in the 90's, WSB and MotoGP, really get consumed by this - isn't it such a crying shame that there isn't more available from the 50's and 60's including the motor car racing, in fact that is what I miss the most, to be able to see the 63 and 65 Belgium GP's for longer than seconds would be wonderful as well as the 66 Dutch GP - aw so many -
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Post by charleselan on May 10, 2020 11:53:19 GMT
There are some incredible bits of film footage coming onto YouTube these days that is for sure. I have watched some incredible films over the past few evenings Chris; one was a long full length documentary about the Can Am series in the early 1980's and I haven't watched it all through yet and the other was about the Penske Porsche 917/10 in its first race. Also last week I viewed a great Trans Am film featuring Parnell Jones in the Bud Moore Mustang up against the Penske AMC Javelins.
I haven't searched yet but would like to see some of Hizzy's great rides on the Ducati, along with John Reynolds on another Due'.
Just some amazing stuff but as you say so sad that their is a shortage of 1950/60's material, although some is truly outstanding; Jim at Clermont Ferrand in '65 being one of them.
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Post by chrisb on May 11, 2020 19:34:56 GMT
I am discovering new clips daily JC, I have found some memorable clips of the 60's but in true Dickensian fashion I want more
There are some great clips of Hizzy - at the IOM on 'that Norton' and BSB when he and Niall MacKenzie vied for championships on their Yams, Hizzy was amazing and a very complex character, but I always liked MacKenzie and his sons although I fear they are not quite up to their old man
They had the 1981 Spanish GP on this evening, amazing race, I do have it on DVD taped from the BBC but the colour schemes and that scarlet car, amazing shots, wonderful drivers and great cars
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Post by charleselan on May 12, 2020 7:00:06 GMT
I am discovering new clips daily JC, I have found some memorable clips of the 60's but in true Dickensian fashion I want more There are some great clips of Hizzy - at the IOM on 'that Norton' and BSB when he and Niall MacKenzie vied for championships on their Yams, Hizzy was amazing and a very complex character, but I always liked MacKenzie and his sons although I fear they are not quite up to their old man They had the 1981 Spanish GP on this evening, amazing race, I do have it on DVD taped from the BBC but the colour schemes and that scarlet car, amazing shots, wonderful drivers and great cars Oh! Steve Hislop on that Norton that is a great film, one of the great Senior TT races, and Foggy wringing the last ounce out of that old Yamaha. There is a great film of Hizzy with onboard footage of a complete lap riding the factory Honda RVF which is superb and shows his talent to the fullest. Complex character indeed Chris, but one of the greatest natural talents to get astride a motorcycle, intelligent also a trait so often found in the Scottish. MacKenzie Snr was very good and pretty darn hard and uncompromising, something a little lacking in his two boys I feel. |
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Post by chrisb on May 12, 2020 19:01:23 GMT
yea totally agree about JC your views of Niall, he was hard and very clever, he knew how to win not only a race but a championship - t'was a shame it never happened totally for these in MotoGP
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Post by charleselan on Jun 9, 2020 15:59:21 GMT
Just doing the usual surfing through YouTube on my TV last night and up popped a short version of a film which I believe is called "One Day In June" and released by Duke these days, it was in fact a promo from them.
This is the truly epic film of Mike Hailwood's Isle Of Man TT comeback in 1978 and the scene of his incredible win on the Sports Motors Ducati 900SS. No doubt ever in my mind that Mike was the greatest motorcycle racer of all time, the equivalent of Jim Clark and of a similar generation.
I remember seeing the original film of this race a couple of years later when it was shown at a local motorcycle club in my nearby city. It was memorable then and still sends shivers down my neck when ever I see it to this day. I may even buy a copy of this from Duke as the quality that as displayed is pretty good for something originating in 1978. For some reason the short version I saw last night is not available with YT online but is through my Roku Streaming stick, however this even shorter version still is available.
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Post by chrisb on Jun 9, 2020 19:47:55 GMT
it was amazing JC, the talk of so and so being the GOAT, against Mike the bike? I don't think so, I think that is a good idea and may well order a copy for myself as well John
recently watched a new clip on one of my other favourites Dave Jefferies whom I firmly believed would have eclipsed Joey, but for a marshals flag, it was something special, I don't know if you have seen his ride on a street bike on Mad Sunday? he really was incredible
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Post by charleselan on Jun 10, 2020 17:25:11 GMT
it was amazing JC, the talk of so and so being the GOAT, against Mike the bike? I don't think so, I think that is a good idea and may well order a copy for myself as well John recently watched a new clip on one of my other favourites Dave Jefferies whom I firmly believed would have eclipsed Joey, but for a marshals flag, it was something special, I don't know if you have seen his ride on a street bike on Mad Sunday? he really was incredible Chris it is a brilliant little film of that momentous occasion. I have checked the "Duke" site out and it only 17 minutes in duration and can be downloaded for £3.99, or the DVD purchased for £8 or £9. I have a feeling that i may already have it in my large collection which I gathered before leaving to live in France. For approx 18 months I belonged to the then excellent Tesco DVD postal rental operation. Amazing how i managed to get many copies onto my HDD of all of those DVD's, can't think how they mysteriously got there. If not I will purchase the download. |
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Post by Carl on Jun 10, 2020 17:54:02 GMT
it was amazing JC, the talk of so and so being the GOAT, against Mike the bike? I don't think so, I think that is a good idea and may well order a copy for myself as well John recently watched a new clip on one of my other favourites Dave Jefferies whom I firmly believed would have eclipsed Joey, but for a marshals flag, it was something special, I don't know if you have seen his ride on a street bike on Mad Sunday? he really was incredible Chris it is a brilliant little film of that momentous occasion. I have checked the "Duke" site out and it only 17 minutes in duration and can be downloaded for £3.99, or the DVD purchased for £8 or £9. I have a feeling that i may already have it in my large collection which I gathered before leaving to live in France. For approx 18 months I belonged to the then excellent Tesco DVD postal rental operation. Amazing how i managed to get many copies onto my HDD of all of those DVD's, can't think how they mysteriously got there. If not I will purchase the download. John Charles, You may be another innocent victim of rambling video syndrome  |
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Post by charleselan on Jun 10, 2020 21:32:54 GMT
Chris it is a brilliant little film of that momentous occasion. I have checked the "Duke" site out and it only 17 minutes in duration and can be downloaded for £3.99, or the DVD purchased for £8 or £9. I have a feeling that i may already have it in my large collection which I gathered before leaving to live in France. For approx 18 months I belonged to the then excellent Tesco DVD postal rental operation. Amazing how i managed to get many copies onto my HDD of all of those DVD's, can't think how they mysteriously got there. If not I will purchase the download. John Charles, You may be another innocent victim of rambling video syndrome Carl, Absolutely, very innocent indeed of the dreaded "rambling video syndrome" . John Charles |
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Post by charleselan on Jun 11, 2020 13:03:44 GMT
Further to the above there are some very good little films about "Mike The Bike" on YT, two of which I believe are promotional clips of longer episodes from the Duke library.
One is from the 1964 GP season and although in monochrome is very good indeed. It features Mike on the big MV Augusta "four" at the Belgian GP in Spa Francorchamps. The clip has onboard footage which must have been some feat in those days with the size of movie camera involved, and has footage taken from different positions on the bike. The really interesting aspect is Mike's commentary which was put on afterwards and is not a description of the lap but his thoughts about many things. In one part he talks about the difference between bikes and cars, with the fact that bikes run completely steady on the straights where cars move around and never run true.
He then goes on to say that for him it was very difficult adapting to cars after bikes as he was so used to changing gear with his foot on a bike and that the gated change on a car did not come naturally. Also the fact that cars slip and slide was something that she took a while to get used to and never really liked; how things have changed in that respect for the modern era. I believe that as one of the things that Giacomo Agostini could not come to terms with when he tried car racing after his bike career ended. Mike did master the idea and was a vastly underrated race car driver.
The other film was his often overlooked Senior TT win in 1979 aboard the GP Suzuki RG500. Most refer to that amazing comeback win in 1978 but in many ways the 1979 Senior victory was equally impressive. Firstly he ran a GP Yamaha sponsored by Martini in 1978 but that was not too successful, however in 1979 on the Suzuki he was imperious. Bearing in mind Mike had little experience on a modern Gp bike with slick tyres, this performance was outstanding. In the closing stages of the race he smashed the TT course lap record, and when told this after the race his reaction was "you're joking" and then with genuine modesty "I wasn't even trying that hard".
One really does have to wonder what Mike would have achieved on motorcycles if he hadn't been sidetracked into cars.
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Post by chrisb on Jun 12, 2020 6:23:26 GMT
this is why he remains my motorbike idol, he was just so incredible, I did wonder if he thought Ago was on a par but cars beckoned before that competition blossomed,
makes me think, Geoff Duke, didn't make the transition, Ascari and Nuvolari did, John obviously, Gary Hocking had the potential to, Bob Anderson, it was said Bill Ivy could have, Ago, no, Sheene no, Johnny Cecotto got further than most and we forget Mike was F2 champion, interesting
Quite right John, Mike's 78 TT is the one we all talk of but overlook the 79 one, he really was on a different playing field wasn't he?
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